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What I learned trying to defend the first station to fall to FozzieSov
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Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2015-07-16 18:12:20 UTC
d0cTeR9 wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Why do people keep calling legitimate tactics "trolling"?

This is not c17th century warfare, we don't all line up nice and neat and see who has the bigger guns then have a slow ordered march to the middle for a good scrap.


Running in and out in a cheap, throwaway ship, that can seriously annoy (but that's about it) larger gangs is trolling.


Actually I can see it being an incredibly effective scenario in psychological warfare.
Do it until your opponent gets tired of responding, then actually invade.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Galdon Patrouette
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#22 - 2015-07-16 20:22:18 UTC
'Entosis' links

Hopefully ccp will revise the whole attack process, and correct 'link attack' mechanics.
pretty time consuming for defenders to be away from base ONCE for 40 mins and then have to bring up a fleet scattered all over the region to find and pump up the base links for each base segment x2 = 10 repairs.

a little one-sided.

Can do without it, although ccp seems to like creating chaos wherever they can. How about giving us all full skills in all areas so we can actually make use of all this new 'stuff'?

I am sure raiders who have a base in a wormhole that will not let the attackers back in after 12-18 hours will fare much better.
So is ccp telling us we have to all go wormhole corps to survive their latest game abortion - not withstanding they had the whole game down and messed up for most of a day.
Cancel Align NOW
Farming Collective of Mould
#23 - 2015-07-16 20:42:12 UTC
d0cTeR9 wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Why do people keep calling legitimate tactics "trolling"?

This is not c17th century warfare, we don't all line up nice and neat and see who has the bigger guns then have a slow ordered march to the middle for a good scrap.


Running in and out in a cheap, throwaway ship, that can seriously annoy (but that's about it) larger gangs is trolling.


To me it sounds like some one was prepared for the new mechanics and some one else wasn't.

A nuetral gang of falcons that appear and just randomly jam links on all sides would constitute an ecmtroll - and sounds like great fun.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#24 - 2015-07-16 21:01:18 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Came expecting a 'Grrrrrrr Fozziesov!' thread, found only another 'Grrrrrr ECM!!!!!!!' thread.



Please expect to find a Platypus documentary here.





I wish to see a day when, during the time a ship is jammed, it can still fire its turrets in "dummy mode" meaning they face forward and you have to aim your whole ship at a target.

Better than nothing (which ECM is the only ewar that renders you useless)

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#25 - 2015-07-16 21:02:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
I lost therefor they must have cheated, those LollyECMtr0llsGaggers P
Almost as OP as those AFK Cloakers, eh?
How dare CCP expect us to counter this ****, effecting our max dps builds.
Oh the humanity!

Oh btw if you don't understand it, CCP put up a few vids on it yesterday. You can dig through this to find them (yes not a trick link).

Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:



I wish to see a day when, during the time a ship is jammed, it can still fire its turrets in "dummy mode" meaning they face forward and you have to aim your whole ship at a target.

Better than nothing (which ECM is the only ewar that renders you useless)

That won't ever happen due to UDP/IP and not wanting to turn EVE into a regional broadband only game. Just use some counters in your gang.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#26 - 2015-07-17 00:12:10 UTC
d0cTeR9 wrote:


Running in and out in a cheap, throwaway ship, that can seriously annoy (but that's about it) larger gangs is trolling.


oh yes?
then, you surely are among those that think that this Han Solo guy seriously trolled Darth Vader in the canyons of the Death Star...

Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

Check out the Minarchist Space Project
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#27 - 2015-07-17 00:56:40 UTC
Your problem was a lack of preparation. Expect your Entosis ships to be jammed, damped, webbed, painted, disrupted, scrammed, bumped and possibly sexually harassed.

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
45thtiger 0109
Angry Miners Alliance.
#28 - 2015-07-17 02:11:43 UTC
MRxX7XxMONKEY wrote:
In a two hour event that saw about two hundred people come to the system, I witnessed first hand the issues that both defenders and attackers faced when using this new mechanic.

Overall I think it is a great addition to the game, there was definitively an influx of content in our home. Unfortunately this also happened when less than a quarter of our coalition was actually online.

Immediately I noticed the problem that in-game the mechanics weren't very clear as to what to do in order to play this mini-game. It was also frustrating to note that some of our defenders actually couldn't find the nodes that need to be hacked in space - they were practically invisible and they did not appear by default on the overview. I would recommend turning them on by default for people, or making them more visible in outer space.

However, the main issue that I ended up seeing were TrollECM. Under current mechanics it seems that it is possible for a single t1 ship fit with ecm to halt the defense by three pilots. This is especially annoying because an ECM boat only needs to get one jam cycle on on the entosis-ing ship in order to mess with the capture. It would be fine and dandy if you could then relock the node and continue capturing it, but unfortunately, you have to wait for the entire cycle to end to be able to do anything again, and at that point, you have to do two cycles on the node again! I would recommend remedying one of three ways -
a) allowing links to continue from where they left off if they relock the node as a result of the ECM
b) make the link make the ship immune to EWAR of the ECM variety (justify it by saying that "by using this link your mind and your ship reach a certain point of transcendence and are now immune to things that can break your concentration")
c) make the link boost the ships sensor strength by A LOT when it is active (since they do not need to be scanned down - they have to be at an object that is present on the overview)

Other than this I would say it was a very fun experience, was nice to see people from all over EvE gather in the system in which I tried to live, heh.


IBTL

**You Have to take the good with the bad and the bad with the good.

Welcome to EvE OnLiNe**
45thtiger 0109
Angry Miners Alliance.
#29 - 2015-07-17 02:13:06 UTC
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:
Your problem was a lack of preparation. Expect your Entosis ships to be jammed, damped, webbed, painted, disrupted, scrammed, bumped and possibly sexually harassed.


Well Said I Lolled PBig smile

**You Have to take the good with the bad and the bad with the good.

Welcome to EvE OnLiNe**
Dirk Lance
Syndicate Enterprise
Sigma Grindset
#30 - 2015-07-18 11:48:39 UTC
Sounds like a bit of a butthurt post. Anyway, if all it takes is one ECM Jam to stop an entosis link, that's a pretty good thing. Sov isn't supposed to be something a band of a few scrubs can obtain or defend easily.

The idea is to have control of the grid, and the main reason for that is simple - you have to win the fight first. Win the fight and start the process. You can't just go into a system and try to contest it with a trollceptor either. If you're worried about a t1 frigate stopping an entosis link with ECM, then fit ECCM.

Also the command nodes did show up on the default overview, it's user error.

Fozzie sov is here folks, and it doesn't appear to suck that bad. Adapt or die. Also it's probs not the best idea to defend your sov with a fail fleet. Just sayin'.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#31 - 2015-07-18 19:37:06 UTC
Webvan wrote:
Oh btw if you don't understand it, CCP put up a few vids on it yesterday. You can dig through this to find them (yes not a trick link).

"Sovereignty in the EVE Universe is a game played with mighty fleets, flexible tactics, shrewd diplomacy, "

Interceptor gangs, sovlaser Interceptors, blobbers with bluelists.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#32 - 2015-07-18 20:08:28 UTC
Null is supposed to be endgame. Valuable things in ownable space, but do you have the balls to own it?

CCP is stiring things up, and making it one of the hardest and most involved pvp experiances you can get.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#33 - 2015-07-19 03:07:38 UTC
Hal Morsh wrote:
Null is supposed to be endgame. Valuable things in ownable space, but do you have the balls to own it?

CCP is stiring things up, and making it one of the hardest and most involved pvp experiances you can get.

It's not really.

This might just be your posting alt, and in fact you're secretly a member of the elite nullsec group N3 or something, but... it's not ~all~ that great.

Also, very involved entosis by yourself and run away when people arrive.... and of course mining.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#34 - 2015-07-19 14:51:04 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Hal Morsh wrote:
Null is supposed to be endgame. Valuable things in ownable space, but do you have the balls to own it?

CCP is stiring things up, and making it one of the hardest and most involved pvp experiances you can get.

It's not really.

This might just be your posting alt, and in fact you're secretly a member of the elite nullsec group N3 or something, but... it's not ~all~ that great.

Also, very involved entosis by yourself and run away when people arrive.... and of course mining.



I tried null. I died a bunch, and then I left. Now I mine.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2015-07-19 14:57:42 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
blobbers with bluelists.

Said the Goon.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
davet517
Raata Invicti
#36 - 2015-07-20 04:40:52 UTC
ECM as a counter is fair game, as has already been mentioned, and there are counters to it.

As for all those who feel like this is too hard, you'll probably get better at it with time and practice, but, at the end of the day, it is occupancy based sov. You can't afford to no-show, dock up, or safe up, when a vanguard comes to reinforce your stuff. If you do, it'll cost you, effort wise, if nothing else.

You have a much better shot at warding off that initial attack under this system than in the older systems. Back in the days of POS spam, you had to cover all the moons if you didn't want to wake up to hostile towers in the morning, and even if you did, your towers could be reinforced while you were sleeping, giving you one chance during your prime-time (if you timed it right) to defend.

Under this system, you at least have a defined window of your choosing when you have to defend. The system probably will need to be adjusted, but I hope that CCP doesn't make big changes at least until the first major war is fought under this system, so that it gets a real test. If they do, they'll be doing it based on insufficient data.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2015-07-20 06:00:22 UTC
Not sure if that's correct, but there's a version that the very word "trolling" the way we use it today may have actually come from military. Just saying.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Daerrol
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2015-07-20 14:36:35 UTC
Why couldn't you fit ECCM modules to your entosis ship?
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#39 - 2015-07-20 14:44:27 UTC
Bubble the command node. Bring destroyers. Kill griffins. Win.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Syrilian
Doomheim
#40 - 2015-07-20 14:56:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Syrilian
d0cTeR9 wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Why do people keep calling legitimate tactics "trolling"?

This is not c17th century warfare, we don't all line up nice and neat and see who has the bigger guns then have a slow ordered march to the middle for a good scrap.


Running in and out in a cheap, throwaway ship, that can seriously annoy (but that's about it) larger gangs is trolling.


A single ship disrupting the tactics of larger gangs? I call that being a good pilot. Battles(real life and in EVE) aren't always won by the people that blew the most **** up.
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