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Yes, please! That will be awesome!

There are a lot of modules in the game - at this rate, it is going to take you several decades to finish the first pass of module tiericide. You really need to be grinding through 10, 20, or more, modules per release, if you want to make any real headway - otherwise, module rebalancing cannot keep up with any ongoing ship rebalancing and will always be woefully out-of-date.

I suggest that you stop spending weeks to fine tune each module, one-by-one, to every possible ship configuration, and just work out a set of rough changes for all modules, based on the existing T2 module stats. For the first pass, focus on renaming and removing metas - leaving the T1 meta 0, T2 and faction versions, as is. This should not affect the overall game balance, yet allow you to quickly remove the excess unused metas and rename the remaining metas.

For the second pass, examine the relative T1 meta 0 vs T2 strength of each module and set a more-or-less constant ratio for all modules - with T2 perhaps 20% stronger on stats and 10% worse on fitting. Adjust the T1 meta 0 values (not the T2 version values) according to the ratio, and simply linear interpolate the meta version values between the T1 meta 0 and T2 version values - again, this should not affect the overall game balance and can be quickly done. Something similar can be done to faction versions, setting a more-or-less constant ratio, relative to the T2 versions.

The point of these two passes is to quickly adjust *all* of the modules, without upsetting overall game balance.

Effectively, at this point, the "tiericide" part would be complete and you can focus solely on rebalancing modules, which is the part which entails the most feedback from players and thus takes the most time. This should go much faster, though, since you will have already removed the excess metas and set up a new baseline of relative strengths between T1 meta 0 and T2, from which to work.

As a player that started EVE in science and industry purely, - THIS

T1 usage is horrible these days and prices worse. If you want to give the indy/science people something to do (to produce more en masse/bulk), especially for hisec bro's starting out - then please implement this.

It will only help CCP control and monitor the abundance (ISK FAUCET) of minerals too and will make mining (running grav anoms) more popular and encourage people to venture into null/low/WH Space in either a permanent, semi-permanent, or ninja fashion which is better for everyone.

EVE has a huge gap trying to get players to their first MILLION ISK and then to their first billion so they can feel competent venturing out and losing ships. Most players never make that transition from newb (first 30 days) to beyond because they don't feel like there is something they can do to earn money in relative predictable results like in real life.

For those trolls that would now flame about care-bears etc etc, again, as many have countered - EVE NEEDS THEM. And they won't STAY carebears venturing out in favor of lower producing costs in null, due to the industry revamp and the SOV bonuses to mining and industry in null etc...etc...

Again - predictability....diversity.

Having players manufacture T1 for something other than the few people who are dumb enough to use it, will always be a good thing.

/Ms Michigan

Continuous player since 20o7

Wow, some incursion neckbeard has a view on this beyond "Can we haz Officer SPR plzthx"?? Amazing, but it's still a bit harsh saying Fozzie would do a better job of this.

Sizeof Void does make a good point about the need to push through with tiercides every patch. But i think he's overdoing it a bit saying it will take too long. Remember, the last MWD and AB tiercide was the second swing of the axe on those modules.

I think CCP Terminus has a difficult job with the SPR's and Flux Coils because they *are* a niche use item, and they are items which are useful only when the maths stack up. This is not true of extenders, plates, warp disruptors or EWAR modules in the same way at all. You don't get in a position where you stick enough EANM's on a Geddon and it works fine, but if you swap EANM's for Layered membranes it doesn't.

I think i've laid out the maths and the possible choices fairly efficiently, above.

Flux Coils cannot compete with SPR's. if you make hem work like an SPR more, they begin moving to compete with Rechargers. You can't make rechargers compete with SPR's by buffing them too much more, or they will begin getting out of control or invalidate SPR's entirely.

It's a three way balancing act with no real trade-offs to be made, and the optimal solution is, realistically, to drop flux coils.

Here's an interesting link to give you an idea of flux coils usefulness. In the whole of EVE, only 5 ships a day die with a flux coil on board, and of those, very few have them fitted, with many being loot. They are useless, everyone knows it, so just remove them and balance SPR's and Rechargers against each other, or change the mechanism of the module entirely to some other effect on shields, eg; an active cap to shield converter

Likewise, in the armour sphere, layered membranes are kind of in the same posiion. Only in some extreme edge cases like supers using Officer layered membranes is a raw 15% EHP bonus worth it. And even then, you probably don't even have a use because supers and titans have plenty of buffer, and reps work on resists. So, basically useless.

really think you should fix the broken stuff in game first!.
then give us pre promised changes fully before embarking on new nerfs to ship mods,i know you show the stats and lovely charts for these but in the end they will get nerfed so just bring out crap mods and leave them like they are!

if your looking for more guys to work on these projects can i suggest

CCP_Talks a Good Fight
CCP_All Talk
CCP_Empty Promises

and ofc

CCP_Disgruntled Subscriber

its kind of indicative of CCP in general is too make tiny barely noticeable changes a dozen times (looks at still OP ishtar in particular) instead of 1 or 2 well thought out big changes.

I use passive shield tanking for PVE and have been following this thread with interest.

I like the changes to the Meta variants of the power relays - a clear choice between CPU and capacitor and a meaningful difference. I do not like the change to the T2. It either needs to be better to justify the substantially higher fitting requirement or leave it as is. Leaving the T2 alone would widen the difference to the faction but the Caldari still seems under powered given the likely price premium.

I'll join the chorus calling for elimination or a complete rethink of the flux coils - trading shield capacity for regen doesn't work. I've tried to think of an alternative - capacitor capacity for shield capacity gives an interesting option to the power relays but I'm not sure how well it would work.

I'll also agree that the shield rechargers are quite useless in their current form. With all the wonderful options available for my mid-slots, why would I pick a shield recharger? As a test, I removed one of the two LSE's on my passively tanked Gila and replaced it with a shield recharger II - my passive regen dropped from 341 dps with the second extender to 274 dps with the recharger!

What might work is combining the flux coil and the recharger into a low slot module with higher fitting requirements and a lower bonus than the power relay but with no drawback.

Not sure what my Beta Reactor Control Shield Power relays are going to turn into but I bought a few Type-D at ridiculously low prices - obviously a lot of people not reading this thread!

On a side note. Why can we not mix active and passive shield tanking, in such a way that both "sustainable DPS" and "peak boosting" become relevant? It is because we have Shield Boost Amplifiers on one hand, and Shield Rechargers on the other.

Leading to (I speak for myself) me not using either. I always have something better to do with my precious mids than to fit a boost amplifier or a recharger -- in fact I'm hard pressed to find any free mids for tank so it boils down to either an ancillary booster or a shield extender. (active or buffer). I do not know where you guys find these free mids, but I'm looking at Scram, Web, Propmod and maybe a Tracking computer/Dampener/Whatever useful and unique module I fancy. MAYBE.

That's three - four midslots and I haven't even fitted ANY tank yet. With a bit of luck I have 1 more midslots for tank. Ancillary booster of course, or maybe a shield extender. Most certainly no regular Shield Booster because that would require a Cap Booster (also a midslot) for sure. MWD and tackle ate all my cap. And if I drop my EWAR module/tracking computer, I might even fit an adaptive invul.

A passive regen tank, however, can only be achieved by tossing EVERYTHING out the window -- forget about long/shortpoint, webs, computers, target painters; and forget about your gyrostabs too. Because EVERYTHING has to make way for an endless pile of small percentages leading eventually up to the ability to passively tank some DPS. Congratulations! Your ship is now completely useless.

I do declare: one can either fit buffer/resist (with logistics) or an ancillary (skirmish) tank. Anything else is plain rubbish that ends up on the wrong end of the killmail, utterly incapable of defending itself against anything except NPC rats.

....now, imagine what could happen if a Shield Boost amplifier not only assisted in active boosting, but also granted a de facto shield recharge rate bonus? Perhaps every once in a blue moon, somebody would actually fit a boost amplifier rather than a shield extender? And let's go completely nuts and picture for awhile a lowslot equivalent that would buff shield (both passive AND active) recharge rate whilst taking a bit off the buffer; all of a sudden, active tankers might even appreciate a flux coil!

I can see our Devs are struggling with a serious dilemma. A module that nobody uses; a module even they can't figure out what good it could possibly do or why anyone who did the math would fit it; yet the artwork is there, the items are on the market ... what to do with them? Well, fear not! Brokk solved it for you (donate any amount of ISK you deem appropriate). People active tank for a reason; and having several shield-related items that are not worthwhile unless fitting at least 10 of them in every low and mid you can muster, is a bad idea. Equally poor is the notion I would choose a Shield Boost Amplifier over a -30% all-round resist. Now, I don't know what you guys usually fly but where I come from, I simply don't have that number of slots to waste on tank. I can fit the one or the other, but not everything at the same time goddamnit!

These items need a serious kick in the nuts to ensure that sacrificing a few slots yields tangible results. ALL of them is too high a price to pay. And so that we're clear: if it cuts my DPS or competes with necessary mids, it'd better be good. Not good "in combination with a couple of invulns and two or three shield extenders" -- nope: good in its own right.

No love for armor?

...

Shields are already easy to use in my opinion even too easy and overpowered. Considering the down sides armor recieves when it comes to speed/mass and not passively recharging... in addition to the shield boost amp of which armor doesnt have an equivalent. ..

Its ok im sure we can get to armor at some point in time...

Or fix amarr ships so that they can fire guns and use reps... the revelation. .. one day it will be of use

Can't they just un-link regen from buffer size and re-adjust regen value for some ship if needed? That would prevent the coils from being so self defeating.