Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Right now, the HP buff is more impressive. Damage is more consistent on large rats because of that (nice stealth PVE buff). Still not quite sure they measure up to making things better for smaller threats verses a painter though; seems for now to be a little behind. Even target painters suffering stacking penalty seems to edge out ahead in most places where it should count. Being able to trade projection for application and vice versa would be nice for versatility's sake if they didn't feel like a target painter missing cycles. And that's just with the MGC2, I'm not gonna see better results with the meta and tech one variants, they'd just use less CPU. Can't really say much for the MGE's, haven't found anything I fly that can justify dropping anything else for one yet. Maybe a Typhoon/Navy 'Phoon that's shield tanked?

I'm rather curious if others are seeing better results in the PvP area. I kind of hope so, but have a feeling not.

Edit: also could make a FoF centered setup interesting in place of painters. It's something, I guess.

Yes, NPC defenders do not work as well as they did before.

Doesn't the Loki only have a 4 launcher config? It's never going to compete with the turret subs.

Maybe the intent was for a 'like for like' comparison?


Edit: If so, with judicious ammo swapping and TC scripting, the 650 arty gets bettter DPS (You know when arty is better DPS, you're hosed) from ~12.5km to about 44km. Missile total range of 62.9

Fits below

[Loki, Loki Missiles]
Damage Control II
1600mm Steel Plates II
Ballistic Control System II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Dark Blood Armor Explosive Hardener
Dark Blood Armor Kinetic Hardener

10MN Afterburner II
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier INACTIVE
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier INACTIVE
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Precision Script

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II

Loki Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter
Loki Electronics - Immobility Drivers
Loki Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Loki Offensive - Hardpoint Efficiency Configuration
Loki Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst



Swap to 650mm Arty and appropriate assisting mods, i.e. BCU>Gyro etc.

Of course, that is before links....


Let's add links:

Arty is better from approx 19km-48.7km



And that's 650mm arty....not exactly one of lifes most respected weapon systems to DPS.

It's still better


Edit2: Tengu is even MORE hilarious. From ~16km out to beyond HML terminal range the 250mm rails annihilate it. This is in no small part thanks to the fact the HML can't even get 50% of their paper DPS out into the opposing tengu, even with a MGE II. Perhaps trading extenders for rigors, but bye bye tank.

I've been having a good look at these modules and I only really see a reason in fitting them when you want range.

The application bonus is so small that you actually get more use out of either fitting painter instead of a MGC II or another BCS II instead of a MGE II. It's a real shame. I would have loved being able to trade DPS or tank for extreme application with missiles. However I feel the application boost is too weak to justify the CPU or slot.

If these modules literally only gave range instead of being scripted for range or application I don't think that their use would be any different.

I do admit that the range boost is very very nice. Sadly, the application boost is meaningless.

I feel the application boost needs a buff. Only a little one though.

I've decided to go back to my target painters. These things just plain suck for application. As others have said, the range increase from range scripted MGC is descent enough to make that somewhat worthy on some builds where you have a plethora of CPU and an extra mid or two to play with. In my case, I fly a Golem so have both, but then again not everyone flies Golems and the Golem is not the only ship with a target painter bonus. Mod for mod, they just don't stack up at all to TPs, even when you have several with stacking penalties applied. I said it before and still agree, trading a third TP in my case for an MGC feels like I'm missing TP cycles every time I fire at anything that isn't a BS or that it's not even on. The MCE's are even less valuable for the low slot, since you cannot focus the module to either bonus to make it relevant and low slots on a missile boat are a premium usually filled with far more critical mods. These mods are 12 years to late to be useful it seems.

You're gonna see some running around with these for a while since they are new and people will be trying to figure them out. After a while, though, when people realize their only advantage over a TP is they use less cap, they will get dumped to the side.

I totally disagree with you here. Waiting for the new sov system was strangling 0.0. I just hope it's not already dead from so many quitting over the last few months of stagnation.

I am consolidating feedback from this thread and presenting it in some bullet points to CCP. I hope to get as much of this addressed as possible.

Primarily:
-Address fits that relied on application modules before stacking penalties nerfed them
-Make mid slot application modules competitive with TPs and/or application rigs
-Make low slot application modules significant enough that stacking penalties don't wipe out their bonus
-Biggest concerns are for larger missiles that rely on application bonuses
-Range bonuses are generally okay now

Let me know how that sounds at the top level or if I missed something global.

Yes please, that would be awesome. And let them know that we are really not unreasonable here, we want the same cake that turrets and drones have, so either way you won't get shamed for flying a missile boat.

CCP Rise needs to stick to the NPE and away from balancing, particularly missiles. Because quite honestly, if he'd listened to even an iota of the feedback that most of us provided there wouldn't be anything further to discuss.