Player Features and Ideas Discussion

You seem to be the first.

NOBODY ELSE IS.

Yeah I know but that was one of the reasons the unstoppable Drake was nerfed, wasn't it? I mean, how dare a long range weapon have long range, right?

I just had another idea to even this out. Since we can all ditch the idea of damage application, how about missiles get wrecking damage instead?
One or two warheads of each volley have a chance of doing 2000% damage at let's say 95% range?

I don't use missiles on my main atm, that's why. :)

To **** us all over, of course.

HML are really more about volley than raw DPS. I've found the changes to be adequate in a number of scenarios particularly when shooting sleepers or running 3/10s with my cerb. Also it's worth noting that lowsec caracal fleets vs armour doctrines haven't been explored yet where 1 TP fleet painter and 1x MGC per ship could be useful. These modules haven't been considered for large scales yet either.

Take something uncommon like the navy drake. I'll update my pyfa to Aegis and run some hypotheticals then report here.

[Drake Navy Issue, Drake NI HML]

Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Signal Amplifier II

Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Precision Script
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Limited 'Anointed' EM Ward Field

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile

Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I

Now make a fleet of them.

This really. I accepted the nerf to range on HML long ago for example. And learned to live with it. even made lemons into lemonade and said well I have to be closer for TP anyway to avoid extreme falloff math. Then well as we know...this didn't even make TP worth ditching in many cases.

If the concern was this range with the original bonuses still not seeing why they didn't nerf flight time to reach old levels. I'd have accepted this. To avoid all the stuff they did do.

I would say the following happened again:

We said: "Ishtar still op!"

CCP: "Nerf missiles muahahahahahahaha!!!!!1111eleven"

The fact that long range hybrid got nerfed is somewhat seen as a nerf to the possible counters of Ishtar is kinda funny seeing as there is no way not to shoot in it's native T2 resist with hybrid weapons...

This also speaks volume about the effective counter this doctrine had.

As I've said before, a missile fleet will never be a thing unless there are unbelievable changes.

Reasons as follows:

Skirmish links (LOLSIG & LOLSPEED)
Telegraphed damage utterly eliminating the possibility of effective target swapping
Inability to blap small things at poor transversal
Webs and painters help turrets just as much, in fact more because of the ability to blap small things.
Firewalls remain a thing.


Take an eagle vs a cerberus with quick fit flung together.

[Cerberus, HML Fleet]
Damage Control II
Missile Guidance Enhancer II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II
50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile

Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II



[Eagle, Fleet]
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Large Shield Extender II
Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Lead Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Lead Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Lead Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Lead Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Lead Charge M

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II




The eagle will do the same damage to the cerberus at 90+ km, it will do MORE at any shorter ranges down to about 20km.

The cerberus needs THREE application mods for this to happen. And it's still crappier.

It also suffers rather badly on the EHP front: 60k vs the eagles 90k

I've used a fully linked sleipnir for boosts here.



So, on that basis, why would I EVER undock a HML cerb for fleet work?

Delayed damage, less of it, destroyable damage, less EHP, more slots dedicated to application - all to do less DPS than my turret counterparts, at a high transversal?

You'd have to be high.

Found one undeniably good use for Missile Computers: hitting faction/deadspace rats that won't let you use target painters on them (Why the F is that anyways???). But I mean, this is so niche that it falls through the crack on Niche's floor.