Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Lol.

You don't start to play a new game to NOT play it for 1D 10H or more.

Why you bittervets are so scared of newbies having some actual fun?

another approach could be by making them interesting, instead of removing then use them for something else.

first thing that came to my mind, is that instead of using them as a trainings time modifier, why not use them as a modifier on certain skills when used.

small example

perception: as a modifier on scanning
memory: for archeology
Willpower: for cargo efficiency (I know far fetched, it's a brain fart)
Intelligence: for Hacking
charisma: for trade


the thing one of the strong points of EVE is also it's weakness, the fact that you can learn everything others can is a really strong point though it is also what a lot of new players experience as a blocked to be of use to others. they want to matter to feel useful in a short amount of time.

I think that is easier established with diversity and setting attributes to specialize in a area could be a way to give that to younger players.

it would be nice to see the 1 year old out skill the 5 year old, because although they have both maxed skills in lets interceptor piloting, but the one year old has invested his attributes in to becoming a dedicated interceptor pilot.

And by keeping the remaps the player can move from profession from time to time, to probably a more equally divided remap after a couple of years of the increase in skills makes it more useful to spread.


it's not the easiest option but I think it's a nice way to open up real opportunities for newer players

Q: 'Attributes aren't very interesting, you should remove them'

Idea 1:
Remove attribute revamp and set every one's attributes to 20/20/20/20/20 and leave the implants as they're.

Idea2:
Remove attribute revamp and set every one's attributes to 20/20/20/20/20 and change attribute implants, so there would be only 1slot for attribute implants, but they would give far higher bonus(and ofc they would be far more expensive).

a few random thoughts about NPE (note I've been playing for about 6 months):

- maybe create 'civilian' versions of all the bare basic modules you need to fly a pve/pvp ship -- and make them not so horrible. Maybe 90% as effective as the T1 module. That should be a relatively simple, non-disruptive change.

- I believe skill implants incentives are backwards. Characters who put their pod in danger and lose implants train slower than character who do not undock. You want to reward people who go out and participate in multiplayer content. Other games use non-tradeable items and daily/weekly quests/missions to achieve this. It's a little harder in Eve due to its sandbox nature (i.e. it's not easy to define what 'participating in multiplayer content' means). That said, in principle I think players should have a skill training incentive (not dis-incentive) to undock and participate in content.

Honestly it would be better to extinguish learning implants altogether than have them in their present incarnation.

- Another option is to downrank core skills and uprank advanced skills. That way you can allow newbies to do more while keeping veterans' skillpoints intact.

- Create powergrid/cpu implants that operate like the 14- and 30-day cerebral accelerators. e.g. slot 11/12. You can only use such and such implant if you have fewer than X skill points (or character age), etc. That way newbies have to pay a premium in ISK to be able to fly certain fits, but not prevented altogether.

- auto-select the "New-Pilot Friendly" checkbox in the Recruitment Search screen under the "looking for" dropdown for all new players. Also put it on the top of the list, not near the bottom.

- Once you reach 10/10 missions completed w/ a Career Agent, give newbros a dependable way of getting steered to the SOE Epic Arc quest line. it's great content when you go from your first few hours and onto your first few days. In fact, more of these kinds of 'epic' quest lines for new bros I think would be great. Once you get to 8-12 of these 'scenario'-like scripted mission lines, newbros can be entertained for a good few weeks - enough to get them hooked into the game. Add bronze/silver/gold medal-like rewards for various completion levels and you got yourself a great way for players from other MMOs to get captured into the Eve universe.

- work to make mining/industry (one of the most accessible parts of the game for newcomers) more engaging and rewarding to a fully engaged player. Presently this stuff is relegated to off-screen alts :(. In the very least mining missions should give better ISK/hr than mining the same asteroid belts day after day.

- Add a career agent for Planetary Interaction. You have said it yourself -- players love staring at planets :).

- When a new player gets kicked out of the "newbie help" channel due to being over 20(?) days old, send him/her an evemail with a link to their appropriate language Help channel.

- Create a more conspicuous 'bulletin board' for content creation organizations such as Spectre Fleet to attract newbros. (a link in the Help channel MOTD?) Ditto for Evepedia, Eve's subreddit, eve news sites & popular streamers/youtubers.

Sorry about the loose disjointedness -- just various thoughts that have popped in my head about NPE in the last few months.
-Z

Well if they removed the ability to pull implants while undocked, you'd see a pretty Great need to preserve your pod upon shipdeath.

I'm sure the Bhaalgorn pilots with Talisman impants would want to preserve their pod
Slave set pods in low
Crystal Sets in Null.
Virtue Scout Implants
etc etc etc.

You want to see people panic and turn into risk adverse wimps, disallow the ability to pull implants while in space.

The amount of tears that will stream will end the drought in California.

New player (real new player) would benefit greatly from any activity based skill progression. Players would not immediately need to understand the complicated SP system. They would automatically get the SP required for what they do and what interests them at that time. Also they can do something (play) to get the next module or ship and actually achieve something (instead of wait whatever amount of time). Also this would be much closer to the 'industry standard' players are used to.

The Opportunity system could award skills and SP to get this. And it would automatically exclude older players from free skill points. For older players the current system is fine, mostly because ISK and experience are more important than virtual SP later in game. It also supports a more casual play style which is great for older player and when the first passion for the game is over.

Giving new players more SP is fine, but it feels more like a workaround. And please don't just kill the attributes. There is no way back.

Absolutely supported. I've been advocating this for years.

The Core fitting skills need to go - at least Power Grid Management and CPU Management. Just remove the skills and reimburse the skillpoints, or set the skills to Level 5 for every character. For one thing, it will make balancing the ships a hell of a lot easier. You'll know right off the bat what can fit. You won't have to give such generous fitting room to certain ships in order to make it flyable for a new player, while making it totally off-the-hook for a veteran.

The learning implants need to go away as well. Replace them with more interesting hardwiring implants. Or, in the alternative, turn them all into spare parts for hardwires, and let players begin building their own hardwirings.

That answer raises a few questions for me to the devs.

Would biomassing alts below this thresh hold and rerolling them still be considered an exploit?
If this is not kosher, would these alts be brought up to the new minimum SP?
How are players who created mains right before the change going to be handled?
What skills are being considered for inclusion?

I have a little list of skills I would consider to be useful, but not excessive:


Shield management 3
Tactical shield manipulation 2
shield operation 2

Hull upgrades 3
Armor repair systems 2
mechanics 3

Propulsion jamming 2
Electronic warfare 1

INDUSTRY 2


Afterburner 2
Evasive maneuvering 1

Target management 2

This does mean that a newbie can train into a reasonable fast tackle in literal minutes, and can use the basic PVE modules out of the box, but does not make them great at anything, and leaves them a much better core much faster.

That's "perfect world" thinking that has nothing to do with the subject at hand (the NPE). A good EVe prospect will learn to interact with others quickly, but when you can't do anything fun at the beginning of a game, very few people will keep going, and some of those might have become good eve players. You don't have to give new players 100 million SP and free Titans, but a noob ship with a pop gun and no prop mod is too little as well.

And yes, my reason for quitting was skill time, not interaction, I was interacting the entire time, i just couldn't DO anything in EVE. The goal is to get a new player to keep playing long enough to meet people in the 1st place, and EVE isn't real good at doing that.

Rise,

First, thank you for this thread. As someone becoming disillusioned with Eve lately, this thread makes me feel very happy. I have written extensively on these topics over the past couple of years, so I will try to summarize my position.

Get rid of attributes, attribute implants, remapping, and everything to do with them.

To me, I pay CCP for the training time, not the play time. I cannot play 23/7, but I can train 24/7. So, this should be a fixed amount of SP/month. I don't really care what SP/hour rate CCP sets. SP should accumulate at the same rate for all subscribers. Eve players should be encouraged to get out in space and interact with each other, with a focus on improving knowledge of game mechanics and player skill vice character skill. Character skill gain should be a steady and dependable thing, with no advantages to wealthier players (whether in game or out of game).

Remaps encourage an unhealthy amount of long term planning, to the detriment of short term gameplay. I get that Eve is about consequences, but the consequences should be that a shiny spaceship explodes and months of ISK are destroyed in the blink of an eye, not that the optimum way to train is to spend several months in a station training INT/MEM before remapping to PER/WP. The optimum way to train should be to undock and die and kill and improve the skills between the keyboard and the chair. All the while, you pay your subscription and your character keeps getting better at a fixed rate/month. You still have to plan what to train and when, but it becomes less about min/maxing attributes and more about what you need in the short-mid-long term.

Redo the whole implant design. All implants should give a direct and tangible benefit when flying your spaceship. Any implants that do not make a spaceship better while being used should get removed (mostly thinking of the attribute implants, but also the refining implants).

Make all implants produced through BPCs and/or Invention. Put the components to build them into data sites and/or PI. I would replace existing implants with a pile of raw materials that could be used to produce new implants. I'd also make it so that players produced all implants. While I was at it, if I worked for CCP, I would take the opportunity to completely revamp and redesign all implants. I'd vastly increase the variety of potential useful implants.

The risk versus reward discussion always comes up with this topic. I agree that risk versus reward is important, but currently misplaced. The risk versus reward should be: if I plug in my Slave set, I have a better chance of winning this fight, but I stand to lose 2.5b if I die. That is a risk versus reward decision that does not discourage me from undocking. The answer is to undock, but I decide how much ISK is at risk.

It should not be: if I plug in these +5 training implants I won't be any better in this fight, but I might be better in another fight six months from now. That is a decision that discourages me from undocking at all.

I want to see Eve players feel comfortable getting in fights right from the beginning. I want to reward players for pimping their ships and pods for short term advantages, because that makes for shiny kill mails. I don't want to encourage people to never undock or to stay in high sec for months on end because they are scared of my bubbles.

TLDR version - get rid of attributes and attribute implants!