Player Features and Ideas Discussion

They don't even know that "fast tackle" is, they can't even keep track of the ranges and functionality differences of the mods required for tackle.

If this friend of this reddit poster says this kind of stuff, they are the reason for people to quit. Instead of bluntly giving people this kind of information, they should use the time to teach these new players some basics and give them really helpful information. This psychological difference is just enhanced or created in the first place by people like this friend.

I disagree on this one as per my reason in the various threads but as it is a done deal:

How about replacing them with faction combat implants. The BPC's for them drop in place of learning implants, they use PI and items (new or existing) from exploration sites to build.

They give a bonus on two areas rather than one, but not as strong in either area as the more focused implants. So for example the guristas implants would bonus missiles and shields, but only at 1/2- 2/3 the amount that a specific implants for missiles or shields would.

This would allow a meaningful choice for solo/small groups to have bonuses in two areas with the use of more expensive implants, but fleet action clones would still benefit more from th specialized implants to maximize their fleet role.

These should be available in lo/mid/high grades as per usual.

Hopefully this would boost the manufacture and PI gameplay and also encourage the use of combat implants on a broader scale.

You nail it (accidentally) here.

They don't know what it is, they don't know they need the mods.

Until they do need it. And 99% of the time as a newbie that is because they want to do something NOW, but cant. Because prerequisites they didn't know about stand in the way of basic T1 mods.

So they can't do what they wanted.

This is NOT how you treat new blood, not if you want them hooked.

So, basically what people need are these 1D 8H worth of SP in order to have fun? (However, only race specific: Amarr/Gallente get them for armor tanking, and Caldari/Minmatar for Shield tanking.)

This definition of "fun" is way to limited in my opinion, but then again the mental scope of many players in the age of Angry Bird and Farmville is as well.


Instead of sitting in the dock, you should have read/listened to/watched something about the activity you want to pursue. Or you should have talked to people to find out more about the game. Time flies (at least it did for me when I started the game) very quickly if you do that.

A day and a half is a HUGE barrier to a game for a new player.

If i go play wow or archeage and i pick the class i want to play the game doesn't start a timer saying you can play that class in 34 hours. more look at all the cool extra stuff you can unlock by playing.

A long training time to even sit in a half decent fully t1 frig and do ANYTHING is going to quickly diminish a players excitement for the game.


i know the first time i played i stopped bothering due to having to wait a few days to do what i wanted at even a beginning level.

Most people i know who started playing left and never came back for the same reason.

We can look back now and say "lol 2 days" but it really hurts the new player experience, you go from excited to play this new game to im going to go play "x game" very fast.

Starting off players with basic abilities is no harm, as you say "how is 1D 10H an entry barrier to anything?" well if you dont view it as a barrier why not start players off there in the first place?


You can talk out your ass about how dumb people are now and preach patience, i'm sure /r/iamverysmart would love to have you, but at the end of the day this is about the new player experience, its about how they feel, if you don't start caring about that on eve's 20th anniversary there will be a few thousand of us left huddled together talking **** about the new star citizen patch.

What do do with the +1 through +6 implants (I'm sure someone still has a +6 somewhere).

You have three options.

1) NPC turn in for isk (I'd run it about 5% UNDER the typical market order.
2) LP hand in
3) Reverse Engineer them to create pirate implants or other implants (bpc's for halo, slave, crystal, etc).
4) contest (similar to what you did with the Sleeper Blue loot).
5) Refund (they have a static cost, refund it).

There are options to this.

Because it teaches the new players the most important lesson of EVE right from the start: Everything takes time and is supposed to take time. What you remove from the first hours in terms of waiting time and accustomizing to the waiting, you just push it back a couple of hours or days. And then it takes even longer to wait, causing just more frustration, which then results in ranting posts in this or other forums about removal of skills, speeding up of training or removal of training altogether. All for the sake of keeping people who are not interested in a long-term oriented gameplay but a quick, meaningless action fix.

Caring about them is not making things easier that do not ought to be easy, it is providing them with something to do while they wait. And this should be provided by other, more experienced players as well as CCP. Removing initial waiting for some skills to finish as slight barrier of entry, that is essential in so far as it teaches patience is important in this game, and during which you can learn a lot about the game and do not end up as yet another meat block in the grinder, is in my opinion not a proper approach. It is an easy approach, but not a proper approach; however, doing something the easy way seems to be the only maxime to follow these days. It just helps to hype the players only to let them loose into a game of boredom and nothing to do because either they cannot get something going or other players do not do something and rather sit in station.

You continue to miss the point. Its not "1d 8h", it's "1d 8h for a veteran player who knows what to look for".

No one is advocating trying to cater that the 'instant gratification crowd' that shouldn't be catered to in EVE. We are talking about removing a useless barrier that turns off people who MIGHT become good EVE players if not for that tiny bit of stupidity at the beginning that has you sitting in a station for the 1st "1d 8h" (usually more).

I'm like a lot of people, I quit EVE after the 1st day, it was only the fact that a buddy kept bugging me to play with him that i came back after a couple weeks. With his help i trained up a rifter, we went to low sec, i got blown up by a Brutix (guy gave me my loot back) and i was hooked for these last 8 years.

But it wouldn't have happened without that nagging buddy, the idea now is to make the NPE work for people who are sans nagging buddy.

New players , create charactes by a template they choose ( maybe by bloodline / school ).
Something like :

Warrior :
- lvl 5 race specific frigate , lvl 5 race specfic weapon , basic support skills lvl 3-4
( character that still need to train for few days to get T2 guns or T2 ship)

Industrialist :
- lvl 5 race specific indy ship, lvl 5 industry , research and some support skills ( don't know much about industry)

Miner :
- lvl 5 mining frigate , lvl 5 mining laser , some support skills ( don't know much about mining)

Scout :
- lvl 5 race specific frigate , Cloak lvl 4 , astronometrics and basic support skills

Some support character A :
- lvl 5 race specific frigate , remote reps and and basic support skills

Some support character B :
- lvl 5 race specific frigate , Ewar and basic support skills

This only apply to 1st character on the account ( if there is no characters on the account first created will get this kind of boost).


How people will abuse it :
- ganking , much easier to create destroyer ganking alt ( still new players are more important , and they need to have access to destroyers)
- cyno alts - but this can be very easy to fix , by adding some additional skill requirements needed to inject the cyno skillbook ( this will also make current cyno alts unaffected).


Learning Implants.
1 .Remove the bonus for the learning , from all T2 / faction implants.
2. Remove all pure learning implants.
3. Create new modules and items that will compensate the ISK sink , and LP sink those items provided.

This can be even to increase the viability of some LP stores, currently the same +4 implant you can buy from Caldari and from Gallente faction.

Why T1 implants cannot be faction specific , and like T2 implants cannot provide set bonuses.

Summarizing all installed implants (# is variable):

Caldari +# Set
Missile speed increased by #
Missile EHP incresed by 4x#

Full set implant ( all 5 implants)
# increase to all missile damage

Gallente+# Set
Drone speed increased by #
Drone control range increased by 2x# KM

Full set implant ( all 5 implants)
# increase to all drone EHP

I know that those are bad examples but it is about approach combined with new faction modules can fill the gap after removing need of learning implants in eve economy.





Now the most important change CCP needs to implement : remove the smart way the ability to abuse buddy accounts!

No, they should be taught improvement comes with time.

The difference between "can use poorly" vs "cannot use at all" is simply massive.


Let's take a common example. MAPC.


Typical newbie chat:

"Hey how do I get more power"
>"Train up skills but in the meantime you can fit a micro auxiliary power core"
"Sweet, thanks man"

Newbie scoots off to buy MAPC so they can online the booster/prop mod/whatever.

Newbie can't even fit the thing because it's behind a 2 hour train. Being a newbie they're almost certainly not even going to know to check skill prereqs.

Newbie then either a) flies a half fit shitfit (what a great experience) or b) does "something else" whilst it trains.

That something else is not eve, because although the sandbox is huge, they're newbies and they CANT DO MUCH by very definition.

Too many vets forget the new days. Too many people train the likes of JDC V and advise folks "do something else whilst you wait" forgetting that the newbies don't have the skills to "kill time" whilst they wait.


You want a NPE where people can sample everything eve has to offer, without waiting. You want them to think, "Bugger me this is good fun, I'm really enjoying X I'll spend the time to improve it!" You do NOT want them sitting for a period waiting to TRY something they may not even like.

People get terribly scared of "instant gratification" but tell me...think back to the first time you unlocked a new ship class and are level 1 skilled. Did you fire out in it right away thinking you're all that? Of course not - the elation comes from getting it to level 4 or 5 and being GOOD with it. You can sit in it, you can take it for test spins, you can already feel the potential and it's exciting but it drives you to train it higher. What you want fore newbros is to lift that "hang time" whilst they get the basic junk trained. You want them to get the excitement about the POTENTIAL of the game right away.

People who are excited and are able to dive into a game feet first are going to worry less about a time to train because progression is different from barrier.

I want newbies in rifters with meta kit tearing up the skies wholesale. I want them to be able to do it from the second they are born.