Player Features and Ideas Discussion

The question that everyone is asking themselves now would be 'can I bring a Drake now or what?'

My experience with these mods against sleepers in c3's sees 1x t2 computer + 1x painter result in nearly double the base damage being shot downfield over unbonused missiles. I used to run double painters but I'd still say these do make an appreciable difference with -19% sigR and +19% eV making heavies at least much more competent at dismissing the small and medium targets.

For things like golems I'd expect you to still want painters, for things like typhoon then it might be computers all the way due to a native bonus being pushed further not to mention a missileTC being like 60% of the effectiveness of a painter + being a free flare rig at the same time.

99.98% increase to sigRad. with heat, on a 10%/level ship such as the Hyena or Golem. TPs are stacking penalized btw. And because its a multiplier, unless said ship is either already naturally large (BS/cap/supercap) or has MWD running TPs will do little. 199% of almost nothing is still almost nothing. In other words, target painting a scrammed frigate is utterly useless.

Speaking of useless, I see the MGC range bonuses list in the OP are down to 5.5% now. I was hoping these might find a place on something like the Sacrilege. But with such a small bonus I'm not seeing it.

Current max range on faction heavy missiles is 62.9km. This increases to 77.5km (62.9*1.11*1.11) using a scripted MGC II with the current stats. For the record, we started at 9.5% flight time and velocity.

Missiles are not turrets. You cannot slap the same bonuses on the module and expect to get the same increase in performance either mathematically or perceptually.

In the case of missiles, you are not increasing damage at longer ranges by increasing range. All you're doing is allowing for dps to be applied at all. In addition, increasing range on cruise missiles won't do much because they have extremely long range to begin with. Most of the time the limiting factor is locking range, which requires a sensor booster.

Short range missiles will gain almost nothing from a mere 23% increase in range. You can afford to be generous here. 23% range is honestly not very much, especially when you are using HAMs, torps, or rockets.

41% was a bit much. 23% is too little. So I suggest bringing the missile velocity and flight time bonuses back up to 7.5%. Scripted, this will result in a 15% per category increase, and thus a 32.25% total increase; a shade under a third more range. This is the exact same bonus granted by using 2 range rigs, one each of Rocket Fuel Cache Partition, and Hydraulic Bay Thrusters. I would find this to be useful in most cases.

There is precedent to this value. 2 missile dps rigs (1 each of Bay Loading Accelerator and Warhead Calefaction Catalyst), give the same dps increase as a single Ballistic Control System II.

I think the original application bonuses were fine. But for argument's sake, guess what the application rig bonuses are? 15%. The current values on the MGC will give 15% when scripted. So I think that value is a fair and useful value. It should stay.

I've got a new one (completely new format) in the works.

I have no idea how you can use a comparison between two modules for completely different weapon systems and come to the conclusion that one of them needs a change. I agree that the range bonuses needed to be toned down, but that should come from an analysis of the weapon system itself (at least give that as the reason). I would have liked to see the application statistics go through, but I was just curious what might have happened. Regardless, I think the whole weapon system needs a drastic change.

t1 rigs are 10% and you can't fit 2 t2. Also 2 t2 would be much stronger than single BCS.

That should be a per level bonus since you can just plug in implants that do the same. Those 5% tracking enhancers for missiles will not turn the tide on anything. And that tracking computer thing with the scripts are just a little nicer standard crash boosters.

The values need to be returned to the values from Thursday so they might have an effect and for the Empress bring heavy missile values back to 2011 - they rest of the weapons have already surpassed them in power.

wow u were fast with your edit, removed my response as well

They're a bit funny to use. I fit one to my tengu for pvp and couldn't really see the difference.

This is correct, you should be getting a combined effect that represents one full rig, with the additional .5 of a rig being the benefit for using "fitting" room (CPU).

However i would take it one step further and actually just remove the Range benefit entirely to a second module. To me it seems like an unneeded adjustment for 1, and is probably the reason these modules look wonky numbers wise compared to TC's and TE's. This would give us 1 module type with the following.

7.5% ER and 7.5% EV

Scripted either
15% ER and 7.5% EV (100% increase to ER script)
7.5% ER and 15% EV (100% increase to EV script)

This allows a player to option between the 2 application variables depending on the nature of the engagement.

Is the target being measured in the Sig/ER calculation, use the ER script
Is the target being measured in the Speed/EV calculation, use the EV script.

This functions much more closely to TCs and TEs. In the sense

ER is your Missiles Optimal Range, the smaller the better
- The smaller the explosion radius the more likely a target is going to be hit by the "shockwave" caused by the missile
compared to TC the larger your optimal range, the more likely you are to score a hit vs a target
EV is your Missiles Tracking Speed. the larger the better
- The faster the "shockwave" moves the more likely a target is going to take damage inside the radius.
compared to TC the faster your tracking speed the more likely you are to score a more direct hit vs a target.


The other module of course would be for missile range.
7.5% Flight Time + 7.5% Velocity
15% Flight Time + 7.5% Velocity (100% flight time)
7.5% Flight Time + 15% Velocity (100% Velocity).

Granted in almost all situations people would just use 100% Velocity Scripts because you net the same benefit, and your missiles move faster. Which makes scripting kind of ineffective because there isn't a single time when Flight time would be better...Unless of course CCP also added in Missile Guidance Disruption, that cause missiles to get "lost" on route to a target thus reducing flight time, and making increasing of flight time more desired than increasing speed depending on the situation. Other options for disrupting the applied damage from missiles already exist, they are of course called After Burners Skirmish Fleet Boosts and Halo implants. But thats probably a discussion for another day.

In terms of the low slot function I would like to see

7.5% Application (I would go with ER) + 7.5% Range (I would go with Velocity)

Effectively represents .5 of 2 differing rig slot options, and allows a pilot to fit one to get a little taste from either of the midslot variants as well

The biggest strength of missiles is having a large engagement window, at the same time its weakness is less peak DPS applied at all ranges within this window. You should have the choice of either boosting your effective application in your current engagement range...or increasing your current engagement range while maintaining your application ratio...or use a low slot which provides a bonus to both ends, but not as effective as a dedicated rig slot or mid slot.