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[AEGIS] Fleet Warp Changes - Please see devblog!

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1801 - 2015-06-24 16:46:56 UTC
Masao Kurata wrote:


More effective at pissing everyone off and one line of code less.


You being irritated at a change is no basis on the effectiveness of a change. I bet you also kicked up a stick with the warp speed changes and lots of people went off the deep end with the nano nerf. This change is needed, it is far too easy to control a fleet with one person in one ship.
A55 Burger
Weiland Yutani Corporation
#1802 - 2015-06-24 16:48:03 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
A55 Burger wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


It does exactly what they want, It stops the fc from being the scout in their fc ship. All this change does is return us to what we used to do back in 2007 and we got just as many fights then as today.


Ahhhh... the good old days.


This show what exactly with regards to the way fleets worked back then?


I don't think I'm debating how fleets worked back then. I'm pointing out that if you want to improve a game, regression isn't the way to do it, regardless of what people think due to nostalgia.
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#1803 - 2015-06-24 17:12:04 UTC
Masao Kurata wrote:
That can be accomplished with a much less disruptive change: disallow fleet warping to probe results and bookmarks less than one minute old (bookmark age is already in the database).


That preserves near-instant on-grid warping, which leaves entire classes of doctrines confined to history and forgotten hangars, and entire weapons systems--cruise missiles, large beams--confined to PVE.

Just incidentally, they're all doctrines which could effectively counter sentry Ishtars and Domis and also Petes (well, maybe not cruise missiles...).

If the problem is that ad hoc multi-corp fleets of -10s are going to take a hard nerf in high sec, maybe backing Jayne Fillon's idea of extra-corporate player organizations is a good idea.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Naglerr
235MeV
#1804 - 2015-06-24 17:47:30 UTC
Wow, 91 pages. It would be nice if CCP could come around and provide a status update on this subject. I remember something about them offering an updated status by the end of last week...
Dermeisen
#1805 - 2015-06-24 17:51:46 UTC
A55 Burger wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
A55 Burger wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


It does exactly what they want, It stops the fc from being the scout in their fc ship. All this change does is return us to what we used to do back in 2007 and we got just as many fights then as today.


Ahhhh... the good old days.


This show what exactly with regards to the way fleets worked back then?


I don't think I'm debating how fleets worked back then. I'm pointing out that if you want to improve a game, regression isn't the way to do it, regardless of what people think due to nostalgia.


Why not, are you relying of an approach to the history of eve that presents only an inevitable progression towards a better game, or can good things be lost only to be rediscovered with the benefit of hindsight?

"Not the Boreworms!"
Lamhoofd Hashur
Overload This
#1806 - 2015-06-24 17:52:32 UTC
Naglerr wrote:
Wow, 91 pages. It would be nice if CCP could come around and provide a status update on this subject. I remember something about them offering an updated status by the end of last week...


http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/fleet-warp-changes-coming-in-august-release/
Arrendis
TK Corp
#1807 - 2015-06-24 17:55:53 UTC
Lamhoofd Hashur wrote:
Naglerr wrote:
Wow, 91 pages. It would be nice if CCP could come around and provide a status update on this subject. I remember something about them offering an updated status by the end of last week...


http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/fleet-warp-changes-coming-in-august-release/


Yup. Pushed back a release. I am pleasantly surprised.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#1808 - 2015-06-24 17:58:37 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Lamhoofd Hashur wrote:
Naglerr wrote:
Wow, 91 pages. It would be nice if CCP could come around and provide a status update on this subject. I remember something about them offering an updated status by the end of last week...


http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/fleet-warp-changes-coming-in-august-release/


Yup. Pushed back a release. I am pleasantly surprised.


They still won't implement a system that is actually significantly better.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

A55 Burger
Weiland Yutani Corporation
#1809 - 2015-06-24 18:03:17 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:

After feedback and discussion, we’ve done some magic on our code and now a wider range of objects will be broadcastable as a Warp-To:

Mission locations
Bookmarks (newly created bookmarks will have a delay before being broadcastable)
Fleet members
Along with all existing broadcastable items


Thank you, Larrikin and Co.
Dermeisen
#1810 - 2015-06-24 18:12:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Dermeisen
A partially satisfactory outcome.

I don't think it will have much impact on bombers which is a shame! But code was obviously a consideration.

"Not the Boreworms!"
James Zimmer
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1811 - 2015-06-24 19:39:56 UTC
This takes the worst out of it. Now it's just a nerf to combat probing, which isn't a terrible thing in my opinion. Thanks CCP for listening!
Lt Shard
Team Pizza
Good at this Game
#1812 - 2015-06-24 19:51:48 UTC
James Zimmer wrote:
This takes the worst out of it. Now it's just a nerf to combat probing, which isn't a terrible thing in my opinion. Thanks CCP for listening!


Its already hard enough to catch someone in a sig, why make it harder
Naglerr
235MeV
#1813 - 2015-06-24 22:18:23 UTC
I guess this thread was too long for CCP so they made another one where it will be easier to steer the narrative. My comments are here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5843635#post5843635
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1814 - 2015-06-24 23:09:00 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

You being irritated at a change is no basis on the effectiveness of a change. I bet you also kicked up a stick with the warp speed changes and lots of people went off the deep end with the nano nerf. This change is needed, it is far too easy to control a fleet with one person in one ship.



How is one person in two ships any better? More tedious for the one person, more time wasted sitting on one's hands for the rest of the fleet..
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1815 - 2015-06-24 23:11:23 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

The point of this change is to force FCs to stop doing the scouting in their FC ship and use more than one ship for this job and thus more people. Can the FC use an alt? Sure. Can the FC use said alt as effectively as a dedicated player? No. The attrition rate for FC alt cov-ops is abysmal. Dedicated scanner alts will be needed with this change so the goals of this change will be met.



FCs do this all the time. Why would they change their behavior now?
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1816 - 2015-06-24 23:19:52 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
It does exactly what they want, It stops the fc from being the scout in their fc ship. All this change does is return us to what we used to do back in 2007 and we got just as many fights then as today.


That's a terrible red herring, and you should know better. Or .. read the dev blog better.
Naglerr
235MeV
#1817 - 2015-06-25 00:09:29 UTC
Awkward Pi Duolus wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Troll words.


That's a terrible red herring, and you should know better. Or .. read the dev blog better.


Baltec1 has been trolling this tread for almost every individual page of all the 91 pages that this thread is. I'm both really impressed with his dedication and surprised that people are still replying to his posts.
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1818 - 2015-06-25 00:22:57 UTC
Naglerr wrote:
Awkward Pi Duolus wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Troll words.


That's a terrible red herring, and you should know better. Or .. read the dev blog better.


Baltec1 has been trolling this tread for almost every individual page of all the 91 pages that this thread is. I'm both really impressed with his dedication and surprised that people are still replying to his posts.


And he does it so well too! It's an easy way to keep harping on how bad the changes are though.. so hard to let them pass by.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#1819 - 2015-06-25 01:04:06 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Brother Mercury wrote:
What you're changing doesn't accomplish the stated goal your'e seeking, rather, it just creates tedium and circumstances that make it harder to get fleet engagements.
So its working as intended.
The point of this change is to force FCs ...
The result of the change is that FCs are less likely fight at all and more likely to stay +2 systems or more away.

I told you guys not to give CCP ideas for compromising.
Now look; they are doing that broadcast bookmarks nonsense. Roll

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Shuckstar
Blue Dreams Plus
#1820 - 2015-06-25 01:47:37 UTC
Like these new changes, go the whole hog and remove the anchoring ability, still hate the icons tho Blink

CCP Greyscale wrote:"OK, I've read every post up to page 200, and we're getting to a point in this thread where there's not a lot of new concerns or suggestions being brought up. There will be future threads (and future blogs) as we tune details, but for now I want to thank you for all of your constructive input, and wish you a good weekend :)"