Upcoming Feature and Change Feedback Center

I was unable to reproduce the same results until you take things into ludicrous levels to try to prove something that doesn't exist. Keeping at least 3 damage mods slots free and a slot for an afterburner the best tank is still 2x shield extenders, 4x hardeners. Two of the hardeners were even invuls to deter gankers etc; it's even worse with multiple specific hardeners . The only thing i found shield rechargers might even have a role in is if you're trying to maximize a completely capless tank by fitting 6x shield power relays, and even then more passive shield resist amplifiers are in most cases better.

This is regardless of the fact that since the rattlesnake got changed, it is FAR better in an active tank version for almost every type of pve gameplay. The ship needs slots for damage mods and the way to get them is to disregard the passive tank and put a shield booster on. I'm sorry but trying to argue that a module is useful in a handful of edge cases for the ship with the most base shield HP in the game except for the State Raven (which means it benefits the least from shield extenders to its passive tank) isn't very compelling in my opinion.

That's completely fair, the scope of my experiment was pretty limited, and maybe I was a little premature in saying shield rechargers are valid for PvE. I was thinking about wormhole space where sleepers often completely cap you out, and do omni damage, so a truely capless tank and an omni-tank were musts for me. Limiting myself to 3 damage mods, a prop mod and T2 mods, the best passive tank I could produce tanked 548 DPS and was a large shield extender, an EM and thermal resistance amplifier, and 3 shield rechargers for mids. Lows and rigs should be pretty obvious. If i go full bling mode (which is not entirely unlikely), I get a 658 DPS tank with a shield extender and the following Pith A-type resistance modules: 2 EM, 1 thermal, 1 kinetic and 1 explosive. Not surprising given the lack of deadspace shield rechargers to compete. I should also mention that I did this on eve droid, which isn't totally up to date. However, I don't think there are any recent changes that would impact the result.

The greater question is: What would I do with a 658 DPS tank Rattlesnake? There are much better options for virtually every mission and deadspace plex, so wormholes probably, C2s specificly because it won't be able to tank anything higher. It would run them like a beast, but that's a lot of risk, and I could easily run C2s in a much-cheaper ship. So maybe a better statement about shield rechargers would be this: Shield rechargers can make passive-tanked battleships stronger in cases where cost is a concern, but that may be irrelevant because passive-tanked battleships may not be practical anyway.

Shield rechargers are a mid slot, mid slots are a big deal especially for shield stuff. Glad to see there is hope to improvement.

In addition to that, there is a sizeable point to be made here about the difference between theoretical maximum passive regeneration, and practical maximum passive regeneration when put in relation with the total shield HP.

The way passive regeneration works, you have to have enough shield buffer that you actually have a decent shot at reaching the peak level. If it was at 25% for instance, you need to have enough hitpoints that a hit does not moves you from 30% to 20% shield, because then you miss the peak.

That's why looking at values like theoretical regen/sec is pointless for shield flux coils, because if they diminish the total amount of shield so much that you can get from 35% to 10% in one hit, it becomes highly dangerous.

The same logic applies for shield rechargers. Yes in some situations, adding another extender will add less hp/sec than adding a shield recharger, but what about the shield buffer difference? It matters, too!

---

In my opinion, shield rechargers should give bonus % HP in addition to the current shield regen bonus. This way they are not very useful if you do not already have a sizeable shield buffer. Therefore, they do not compete with shield extenders.

Shield flux coil penalties should be changed to something like a bit of power grid reduction, and a bit of signature radius increase. This way, they are a viable alternative if you want to preserve your capacitor. But if capacitor is something you know how to manage, you can still opt for a tighter fitting and an easier damage application against you, but with an easier time with the capacitor.

Or in other word, Shield power relays are modules for when you have a high player skill, whereas Shield flux coils are for when you prefer the path of easy capacitor management.

Alternatively, Shield flux coils could just retain their shield HP penalty, but have their amount of shield regeneration increased by 50%.

One of the problems with a passivetank is the amount of fittingslots you use that could otherwise be used for damage or projection.

The first idea that came to my mind making these modules more useful was to lower the fittingrequirements even more, there are almost no midslot modules that take <15 cpu.

I actually disagree and feel the opposite.

Right now, knowing it goes at the end means I don't have to know anything to search for a compact module.

I can (in theory) go in the market and search "Compact shield booster" "compact shield extender" "compact torpedo launcher" "compact sensor booster" and just KNOW without having to memorize flavor names, this will find the correct module.

From medium distant history to me, less than 658 DPS tank will work in c3s, and as part of a team in c4s though you end up needing to remove DPS quickly in c4s with that sort of tank.

Flux coils need boost, set at lest 35% for T2 version, in other case there is no much sense in that module, including hi CPU usage.

Sentries are not broken Ishtar is .

Concerning the current change i still find shield recharge way too weak to be usable in any meaningful way and honnestly if passive recharge as a tanking way would dissapear nobody would notice to be honnest.

The rattlesnake is the only sub cap in the game that can boast of having a great passive tank and it comes at the cost of fitting almost every other slot with a tank module, if you want to be able to run C5 sites solo at least.


Even with the rattlesnake, i've found it better to swap out shield rechargers for passive shield resistance mods as having much better resists trumps the extra 50 or so regen gained with the shield recharger, everytime, especially if one is fitting against sleepers that do more EM/THERMAL than KIN/EXP and vice versa.

If we had adaptive passive shield tanking modules, the shield recharger might make a bit more sense with the freed up mid slots, but I, as well those in my corp that know what they are doing, have arrived at the conclusion that there's no need to fit more than one shield recharger on a C5 combat site running rattlesnake fit.