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On option that has not been brought up to make the shield recharge mod worth while is an across the board decrease in shield recharge rate. Nuke the recharge rate of every ship by 75% and then give the mod a hefty bonus to make it an actual choice.

This would also make it more about choice buffer, burst, sustained, or passive.

Looking over the spreadsheets I think the changes to flux coils is a step in the right direction though they could use a little more love for the loss HP. Perhaps split the penalty to half the current HP loss and add a small sig penalty.

As for the rechargers, I think you should consider greatly reducing the fitting costs so that they are an easy fit on anything module, with the penalty being you are giving up a mid-slot for a weak module.

I think if you needed to go to that level of change, i.e. touching every ship, you might as well get rid of the module and pretend it never existed.

I understand what you meant though. And choices are always good to have. But I think 2 steps back and 1 forward, in order to give more choices and less overall performance would not be well received by players. It would upset the current balance, so while I give you credit for an interesting redesign, I fear, to get it right would be overly complex.

Er. Are you nuts?

People require a reasonable passive rate of recharge on their shields if they are, eg, doing missions or especially incursions. With almost no recharge rate at all, in order to recover your buffer you would need logi.

Now, i'm just going to assume you have no idea how PVP works, based on the stupidity of the above idea, so bear with me while I lay out a few scenarios where the current recharge rate is fine and the current non-modified passive tank of a ship with no SPR's or flux coils or shield rechargers is fine.

Scenario 1: shield buffer frigates.
Sure, if you brawl one on one, you are basically playing a game of DPS vs EHP. But people fit buffer shield to kiting ships, eg, 10MN Worm, LSE Svipuls, etc, where you are dipping in and out of the fight and relying on your buffer to recover within a minute or two instead of within 5 or 10 minutes.

Scenario 2: shield buffer EWAR ships
Yeah, yeah, most EWAR cruisers have armour tanks because midslots used for EWAR, but in shield fleets you do sometimes run shield Celestis with buffer tanks and 2 damps, or shield curses. These shis work at range, and typically cop drone DPS, and can and often do leave field periodically. If we take your proposal, their buffer would never recover, which means they get drven off field permanently. Currently, they can take a warp in and out and have most of their buffer back before they re-engage.

Scenario 3: armour ships, anywhere
Shield buffer is an important part of armour tanking. Even if it's only a few thousand hitpoints, it's still buffer. If your battleship takes 30 minutes to recharge it's shields, that's bad.

So you would propose removing viable options for mobile warfare from the game just to save a bunch of unused or lightly used niche modules from copping the nerf/delete hammer. You'd relegate shield harpy fleets to the dustbin just to make the flux coil look good? That's cart before donkey thinking.[/quote]

You should have read the rest of the post before you posted this. Also in all your scenarios you have no logi on the field? Have you ever PVP'd logi is important just like everything else. But lets move on from that right now. Shield buffer is nice and recharge is nice but it is not this magical need like you are making it out to be. If it did not recharge at its current rate there are ways to work around it. I never said it was a good idea I said that is the only way to make these mods viable in any way. TBH the best solution to these mods is to remove them from game or a dynamic change (Shield Recharges and Shield Flux Coil) in every situation there is a better mod to fit every time.

Edit: Also do not even bring up incursion fits. These ships are so paper tanked to squeeze out that extra 1 dps its silly they could tank just fine but their precious isk/h would go down a little so how dare anyone touch that.

2nd Edit: I understand what you are saying. Like i said in a post above this these mods are just bad all around. One thing that might make more sense and I know you are going to be against it also is to decouple shield recharge bonuses from shield extenders and core field extender rigs. when you add these you get both buffer and shield recharge bonuses when adding these.

Aside from shiny VG communities, everyone in highsec. flies with 20-100% more buffer than is actually needed by the sites and 120-300% the number of reps needed with the boosters.


Back to the topic: Without a massive boost to passive tanking, these mods are pretty well sunk in my books. More buffer is almost always more helpful than any of the pure recharge time mods, and so unless you have slots but not CPU, it's usually going to be PDSes for the buffer, recharge, and ability to fit more and/or bigger extenders.

Sleeper caches can drop COSMOS BPCs.

Oh! I thought they only drop those warp implants or polarized gun copies that nobody wants.

So, as I mentioned earlier, I brought up the Shield Flux Coils and Shield Rechargers comments people have made at the latest module tiericide meeting.

It was mentioned that Shield Rechargers are used in passive PvE shield tanking, where the regen is more important. On larger ships like the Rattlesnake, you can get a higher shield regeneration rate that if you were to use Shield Extenders for example. With that being said we might still make some minor changes to the module set, and there's some research being done into usage rates of Shield Rechargers, especially in PvE.

Shield Flux Coils were agreed upon to be something we are less happy with, so there may be some more significant changes to them. It is fairly unlikely they will be removed outright.

I would look at shield rechargers as a passive equivalent to a shield booster, apply stacking penalties as needed.

Interesting, thanks for the follow up! In partial disbelief, I went and did some quick fitting testing, and I feel stupid now. Shield rechargers on a rattlesnake lead to better tank than shield extenders, and that remains true when I slap on shield powr relays and field purgers. The best tanks I could produce used a combination of shield rechargers, extenders and resist mods, so I'd say you're right on the money when it comes to shield rechargers; they are very valid for PvE. That said, passive tanking is pretty rare and I wouldn't mind a % point or two added to passive tanking modules, especially when they compete with ASBs for capless tanking. If that goes beyond the purpose of tiericide, I understand that too.

When it comes to shield flux coils, the issue is in the nature of passive tanking. People don't passive tank because it's better than active tanking; it's not. They passive tank when the are doing something solo, or in pairs (as opposed to larger groups, which will remote rep) and expect to be nueted hard. They don't expect to have any cap anyway, so why not give it up for better shield regen? Something that continues to matter is sig, so maybe flux coils that help reduce shield based sig increases would make it worth it to throw 1 or 2 of these on with your other modules. Even then, I think it will be an uphill battle when they compete with a stronger tank, especially when that ship is likely to be dead in the water, capped out, prop mod off, and not moving fast enough to avoid much damage anyway.

Hopefully that gives you a little more perspective as you try to figure out what to do with them. Thanks again!