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Carnyx release - General feedback

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Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
#1961 - 2015-06-21 18:33:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Cleanse Serce
Panterata wrote:
You know that can be check easy.

You can ask 32 627 players personally and make a statistic

For myself you can see that I write in the forums very rare. Only on this thread I writing a lot. And if I'm writing this mean definitely something is wrong with the game


Just like me, i don't write that much, and i'm here to defend these changes.

So, does it mean that there is nothing wrong with the changes ?


Roll
Seriously..
Panterata
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1962 - 2015-06-21 18:37:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Panterata
Cleanse Serce wrote:
Panterata wrote:
You know that can be check easy.

You can ask 32 627 players personally and make a statistic

For myself you can see that I write in the forums very rare. Only on this thread I writing a lot. And if I'm writing this mean definitely something is wrong with the game


Just like me, i don't write that much, and i'm here to defend these changes.

So, does it mean that there is nothing wrong with the changes ?

Roll
Seriously..



Ok probably you are not the only one who defend these changes but I will repeat myself again.

Check from first page to the end.
Check how many ppl are not ok with this changes. Look how many positive and negative feedback you have (likes and dislikes also).
And the you will realize for sure that everything with these icons is wrong and majority of the ppl don't want them.

EDIT: And just to make more easy for you - http://www.eve-search.com/stats/thread/427590-1
Rio Bravo
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1963 - 2015-06-21 18:41:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Rio Bravo
Sky Marshal wrote:
It is just that you can't realize your points are invalid, because of your lack of PVP experience (according to killboards).


lol, so if I PvP'd everyday I would lose enough mental function that I couldn't see that a house is a cruiser and a triangle is a frigate? Or can't see that a house with a bar is a BC and a regular house is a cruiser? Or the Parabolic blob is a cap industrial and a flat bottomed blob is a regular industrial? PvP shouldn't affect your faculties to such a degree.

I don't PvP as much as some because I don't generally fight for the sake of it...If I can make money doing mining, ratting, PI, exploration, and research why risk a ship? Fights are always uneven, and when I was militia briefly, I flew solo. So I avoided fighting in favour of camping POC's. I have been on CTA's and I join militia fleets when our home is invaded. Never cared about my Killboard, the way I play is often semi AFK anyways...

The logic that if I PvP'd more it would turn me into someone with limited brain function, is an insult to the pilots that aren't in a state of confusion when fighting. If you fight and lose your ship, maybe you suck. DO NOT blame the icons... or Obama, or Global Warming, or the economy, or early childhood trauma, or your mouse battery...

Ok, maybe your mouse battery...

Roll

“You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. I dig.”  - Clint Eastwood, misquote.
Eke Patang
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1964 - 2015-06-21 18:46:09 UTC
The main thing missing about the comments on the icon changes from those that say they are great get used to them,is a little empathy for those that for one reason or another are not as fully functional as they used to be.....we all get old one day and some of us still prefer to play games not dig our gardens and grow vegetables. Blink
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
#1965 - 2015-06-21 18:48:03 UTC
Panterata wrote:
Ok probably you are not the only one who defend these changes but I will repeat myself again.

Check from first page to the end.
Check how many ppl are not ok with this changes. Look how many positive and negative feedback you have (likes and dislikes also).
And the you will realize for sure that everything with these icons is wrong and majority of the ppl don't want them.

EDIT: And just to make more easy for you - http://www.eve-search.com/stats/thread/427590-1


I'm sorry, but those statistics show nothing at all.
Rio Bravo
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1966 - 2015-06-21 18:49:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Rio Bravo
Cleanse Serce wrote:
Panterata wrote:
Ok probably you are not the only one who defend these changes but I will repeat myself again.

Check from first page to the end.
Check how many ppl are not ok with this changes. Look how many positive and negative feedback you have (likes and dislikes also).
And the you will realize for sure that everything with these icons is wrong and majority of the ppl don't want them.

EDIT: And just to make more easy for you - http://www.eve-search.com/stats/thread/427590-1


I'm sorry, but those statistics show nothing at all.


Not to mention, if your happy...why would you log in to complain? Also, I am in 6th!

*\o/*

“You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. I dig.”  - Clint Eastwood, misquote.
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
#1967 - 2015-06-21 18:50:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Cleanse Serce
Rio Bravo wrote:
Not to mention, if your happy...why would you log in to complain?


The correct sentence would be "If you're happy why would you log in to say you're satisfied" :D

Yes, precisely.
I'm the only idiot doing so. :'(
(even though i'm not 100% satisfied, i think improvements are needed, not a roll back)
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#1968 - 2015-06-21 18:54:01 UTC
Rio Bravo wrote:
Sky Marshal wrote:
It is just that you can't realize your points are invalid, because of your lack of PVP experience (according to killboards).


lol, so if I PvP'd everyday I would lose enough mental function that I couldn't see that a house is a cruiser and a triangle is a frigate? Or can't see that a house with a bar is a BC and a regular house is a cruiser? Or the Parabolic blob is a cap industrial and a flat bottomed blob is a regular industrial? PvP shouldn't affect your faculties to such a degree.

I don't PvP as much as some because I don't generally fight for the sake of it...If I can make money doing mining, ratting, PI, exploration, and research why risk a ship? Fights are always uneven, and when I was militia briefly, I flew solo. So I avoided fighting in favour of camping POC's. I have been on CTA's and I join militia fleets when our home is invaded. Never cared about my Killboard, the way I play is often semi AFK anyways...

The logic that if I PvP'd more it would turn me into someone with limited brain function, is an insult to the pilots that aren't dim. If you fight and lose your ship, maybe you suck. DO NOT blame the icons... or Obama, or Global Warming, or the economy, or early childhood trauma, or your mouse battery...

Ok, maybe your mouse battery...

Roll


I went to amarr to see what I could see what with the burning and all. I have overview settings for large and small fleet engagements because I have been in both. Before the icon changes I had no trouble telling at a glance what is going on. Now, I cant see the house as a cruiser or the triangle as a frig or differentiate one squashed blob from another slightly smaller squashed blob. For me, the icons are simply too small, too indistinct, and there are way too many of them. So all I see now are blobs of color. Now as a carebear, it doesnt matter so much to you, but for the rest of the folk who play this game for the times when fast decisions are required, its a major issue. I'm not going to pay for the game, if I cant see the game. But I am glad for you that they fixed that "major" icon oversight of not having a different icon for every size rock. Now you can look at your monitor and say - hey there is a rock, and over there is a smaller rock. Im sure it was a major improvement for miners that more then justified breaking pvp.Roll

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Rio Bravo
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1969 - 2015-06-21 18:59:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Rio Bravo
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:


I went to amarr to see what I could see what with the burning and all. I have overview settings for large and small fleet engagements because I have been in both. Before the icon changes I had no trouble telling at a glance what is going on. Now, I cant see the house as a cruiser or the triangle as a frig or differentiate one squashed blob from another slightly smaller squashed blob. For me, the icons are simply too small, too indistinct, and there are way too many of them. So all I see now are blobs of color. Now as a carebear, it doesnt matter so much to you, but for the rest of the folk who play this game for the times when fast decisions are required, its a major issue. I'm not going to pay for the game, if I cant see the game. But I am glad for you that they fixed that "major" icon oversight of not having a different icon for every size rock. Now you can look at your monitor and say - hey there is a rock, and over there is a smaller rock. Im sure it was a major improvement for miners that more then justified breaking pvp.Roll


So, how was that different from before? With all the brackets squished together all over the screen? I have been in large fleet OP's and they have always been a mess, so a bunch of squished houses and chevrons are worse that a bunch of squished brackets? The old brackets offered no info other than there was a ship there, in big fleets, couldn't make sense of it. So if your trying to figure out individual ships in space with the icons now, looking at a blob of ships, your EvEing wrong. If anyone has seen some JPEG's of giant battles, they are a scene! You target from your overview panel when your FC gives you primary and secondary targets, not clicky-clicky in space. You can also filter a whole bunch of that out by customizing your brackets and states. Just doesn't convince me, it's almost like you *gasp* want to hate the Icons!

Shocked

“You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. I dig.”  - Clint Eastwood, misquote.
Shuckstar
Blue Dreams Plus
#1970 - 2015-06-21 19:08:40 UTC
Panterata wrote:
You need more feedback??!! But you have ONLY 83 pages feedbacks.. you need more?!

I will give you one constructive feedback with simple words.

- we don't need your blogs
- we DO NOT ask you why you made this changes on the icons
- we WANT our old icons BACK


Plus all the feedback from the test server telling them that the new icons suck. I honestly do not see the point of the test server anymore, we go on there to help you game designers ect and tell you whats wrong but it still gets put into Tranquility. I thought the feedback from the test server would of told you the icons don't need a change but alas this is ccp after all.

CCP Greyscale wrote:"OK, I've read every post up to page 200, and we're getting to a point in this thread where there's not a lot of new concerns or suggestions being brought up. There will be future threads (and future blogs) as we tune details, but for now I want to thank you for all of your constructive input, and wish you a good weekend :)"

Rio Bravo
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1971 - 2015-06-21 19:27:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Rio Bravo
Shuckstar wrote:
[quote=Panterata]Plus all the feedback from the test server telling them that the new icons suck. I honestly do not see the point of the test server anymore, we go on there to help you game designers ect and tell you whats wrong but it still gets put into Tranquility. I thought the feedback from the test server would of told you the icons don't need a change but alas this is ccp after all.


It is what it is, just feedback. Test server, is just a test server. CCP are making the game, and getting paid to do it. We as players are passengers, and don't have the authority to tell a captain how to float his ship. We, however, only have opinions. Everybody has opinions, they are a dime a dozen, and the world is a cold place...

They do what they do to improve the game. Your thinking to much of your own opinion, if you have to have your way all the time in these forum 'discussions'. In the end they will do what is fun, modern, and build the game upwards. EvE Online is not a democracy, not that anyone cares about your opinion in a real life one either, lol. They want input, they want subscriptions, but they laugh when you threaten them...Don't forget you have limited perspective on what 'Everyone' wants.

You know, for years I was saying CCP had to make changes...especially concerning new subs, but about other game things too. They over time addressed all I posted about and more. EvE years ago was getting tired, and CCP seemed lazy, but they started to sprint and are back out in front of the race again. We have so many improvements to be thankful for, new stuff...keeping things 'old' will wreck the game. I look forward to some new deployables I have heard rumour about, to nerf cloaky campers. I know the Rorqual will get out of fat-camp and be strutting to whistles, on the proverbial beach again.

Roll

“You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. I dig.”  - Clint Eastwood, misquote.
Orm Magnustat
Red Serpent Industries
Red Serpent Alliance
#1972 - 2015-06-21 19:34:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Orm Magnustat
Statistics for Trolls

Some of you trolls in this thread keep asking for "numbers", "hard evidence" and other reasonable things (while rejecting survey results and the general tendencies of 2 really large feedback threads ...). Your tendency is, as you like all the changes, that the majority probably is the same and all those loud complainers should harden the **** up or gtfo. All the while its not that you support your assumptions with any hard numers yourself (as you demand from the other side).

Now please take a look at hard numbers about customer satisfaction:

Just have a look at the Eve-offline site that monitors server load for our wonderful game.

Lets go through the graphs for Tranquility for the past year. Start with the one year graph, then slowly move downward till you reach the one month graph..... any more questions about customer satisfaction? For those that get easily confused by all those up and downs and peaks - just look at the average for each graph, those averages go down from

38k to 23k average players online

for the different timescales.

You selfcentered bitches better start praying that CCP begins to listen to the "complainers" that actually still care to come to the forums - if not, I'm afraid our beloved game will go shitcreek downwards .... cause more than one third of last years playerbase HAS already gtfo.

And unlike you, personally I´m not happy about it.
Rio Bravo
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1973 - 2015-06-21 19:39:35 UTC
Orm Magnustat wrote:


You selfcentered bitches better start praying that CCP actually begins to listen to the "complainers" that actually still care to come to the forums - if not, I'm afraid our beloved game will go shitcreek downwards .... cause more than one third of last years playerbase HAS already gtfo.


Lol, just play the game.

“You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. I dig.”  - Clint Eastwood, misquote.
Steijn
Quay Industries
#1974 - 2015-06-21 19:41:00 UTC
Rio Bravo wrote:
Lol, just play the game.


er, we cant now, thats the point.
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
#1975 - 2015-06-21 19:56:13 UTC
Orm Magnustat wrote:
Statistics for Trolls

Some of you trolls in this thread keep asking for "numbers", "hard evidence" and other reasonable things (while rejecting survey results and the general tendencies of 2 really large feedback threads ...). Your tendency is, as you like all the changes, that the majority probably is the same and all those loud complainers should harden the **** up or gtfo. All the while its not that you support your assumptions with any hard numers yourself (as you demand from the other side).

Now please take a look at hard numbers about customer satisfaction:

Just have a look at the Eve-offline site that monitors server load for our wonderful game.

Lets go through the graphs for Tranquility for the past year. Start with the one year graph, then slowly move downward till you reach the one month graph..... any more questions about customer satisfaction? For those that get easily confused by all those up and downs and peaks - just look at the average for each graph, those averages go down from

38k to 23k average players online

for the different timescales.

You selfcentered bitches better start praying that CCP actually begins to listen to the "complainers" that actually still care to come to the forums - if not, I'm afraid our beloved game will go shitcreek downwards .... cause more than one third of last years playerbase HAS already gtfo.

And unlike you, personally I´m not happy about it.


1.
Surveys made in one forum russian-speaking forum, with the participation of SOME of the forum subscriber, among the Russian-speaking community, among the Eve Online community DO NOT represent the whole Eve Online players.

2.
100 pages in a Thread asking for feedbacks is not representative of 100% of the Eve Online community.
What about that 400 long pages thread about Jump Fatigue ?
Did it make people unsubscribe ?
Maybe.
Maybe not.
Only CCP has the numbers about that.

3.
That site http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility only shows something seen every year : during June/July people tend to play less Eve Online due to multiple causes :
- Study test
- Warm weather / More Sunlights.
- Holidays.
- Whats-not...etc..

4.
Even if i can admit that numbers are goin down over the time, that's the case since February / March 2014 which is :
- BEFORE new reealse calendar.
- BEFORE Jump Fatigue
- BEFORE Sov changes.
- BEFORE UI revamp.
- BEFORE Icone revamp.
That does not tell AT ALL that this or that change is the cause of those numbers goin down.

5.
Those are numbers of people actually ONLINE and not the number of subscriptions.
I have more than one account, for now i only use one.
How many of other players are in the same position as me right now ?
Plus, the skill changes can leave an account payed for several mounth with no needs to log in as you've set a 6 months skill queue.

6.
I wonder who are the selfcentered people :
- The one thinking that their opinions are what the majority of Eve Online players think,
or
- The one that stands before spoiled kids who want their TOY BACK NAOO. ?


I'm not happy either with the overall numbers goin downward, but the recent changes since last November aren't necesserally the cause of this.
Steijn
Quay Industries
#1976 - 2015-06-21 19:59:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Steijn
Cleanse Serce wrote:

1.
Surveys made in one forum russian-speaking forum, with the participation of SOME of the forum subscriber, among the Russian-speaking community, among the Eve Online community DO NOT represent the whole Eve Online players.


you could solve #1 if CCP placed some kind of vote on the launcher. Admittedly it wont get 100% as some still use the exe file to enter the game, but it would be a better representation. The problem with this is that CCP darent do it.
Kesta De'Kranken
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1977 - 2015-06-21 20:00:12 UTC
[quote=Mike Azariah

​m[/quote]

As politely as I can....

Mike, I don't know you, but I'm assuming you are a very nice person. But, your post as a CSM is fail. IMO...

Isn't your job is to represent the user community? And that if 98 pages of user response is 99% negative (excluding trolls), and if only 10% (or less) of users post who feel strongly about an issue, then this means the majority of paying customers don't like the changes. And so if the user community is 99% against this change, then your job is to make this feedback to CCP painfully clear and back the users regardless whether you agree or not.

I'm not attacking you, I'm just commenting that "I" feel your job as CSM is to communicate user input to CCP, not give your opinion or defend CCP (which I don't think you did BTW).

Regardless, a big thank you for even posting in this thread which clearly is of importance to paying customers...or at least people who [b]used[/b] to pay.... it's certainly more attention than CCP feels this issue merits...

Thank you for participating (either way) Sir.
Rio Bravo
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1978 - 2015-06-21 20:07:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Rio Bravo
Steijn wrote:
Rio Bravo wrote:
Lol, just play the game.


er, we cant now, thats the point.


Risking getting back on the hamster wheel, of we like 'old icons' better...

You CAN play...If the graphics rendering of the icons is all thats the problem, they are fixing it. Isn't NEW working icons better than the OLD working Icons?

SIDE POINT: Vaudville was great! Alot of silent movie actors had their start in Vaudville theatre...How are ticket sales for Vaudville theatre doing? Not well, or at all. Is it because they replaced the old Black-Face and slapstick tap dancing acts with better stuff? Or is it rather, they were out flanked by the silver screen? They didn't have the business model to keep up with technological improvements in the entertainment business. They stayed the same...

Yes, just like Vaudeville, with all it's romance...EvE would become extinct if it kept relying on 2005 graphics and game mechanics. So instead of the canes and candy striped suit jackets doing barber-shop...EvE is modernizing. Just like things went to Hollywood, and the studio age, and left the dusty stage behind to the janitors...CCP is giving us cutting edge stuff, one of them is the icons system. I still see line ups for movies still (even that's changing), but not for Vaudeville.

To help the tangent impared...The new icons are Hollywood glitz, compared to the old icons that are Betty-Boop comedy skits.

(rhym not intentional).

Blink

“You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. I dig.”  - Clint Eastwood, misquote.
Steijn
Quay Industries
#1979 - 2015-06-21 20:11:59 UTC
Rio Bravo[/quote wrote:
Risking getting back on the hamster wheel, of we like 'old icons' better...


for me, its not a case of liking or disliking anything, its a case of which set allows me to play the game. The old ones do, the new ones dont.
Rio Bravo
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1980 - 2015-06-21 20:12:02 UTC
Steijn wrote:
you could solve #1 if CCP placed some kind of vote on the launcher. Admittedly it wont get 100% as some still use the exe file to enter the game, but it would be a better representation. The problem with this is that CCP darent do it.


Once again...You over value your opinion. Voting or not, accountability there is none, other than market forces. Besides, a new player logging in has no point of reference. Just because you have an old toon, doesn't make your video game critique better...might actually distort it.

Roll

“You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. I dig.”  - Clint Eastwood, misquote.