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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Let's talk Corax buffs.

First post
Author
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-06-20 21:14:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington
So. Let's just set this out: The Corax is a piece of ****. The fitting, slot layout and bonuses are insane and totally at odds with each other. Let's go over why it's a joke of a ship first up, for the sake of those who've come back to Eve after a 2 year gap:

The slot layout makes it, in theory, a pretty capable rocket brawler. But its bonuses are for range and explosion velocity, both of which are utterly wasted on a rocket setup. Explosion velocity is wasted on rockets because most webbed/scrammed targets take full damage anyway. The range is similarly wasted because who the **** would fly a 15km range rocket dessie? I don't even need to go into how useless that bonus is for that weapon system. The fact it makes the average titan look fast only compounds the "lolworthy brawler" problem.

But hey, ok, rockets aren't the only frigate weapon. Let's light missile fit it! Those take fantastic advantages of the bonuses on this ship, and fit with the general Caldari philosophy of providing long ranged fire support.

Oh wait, you're over on grid at max skills with just a DCII, BCU, and MWD with light missile launchers. Well this is off to a great start.

Let's try throwing on a couple of target painters. Meta 4, 16 CPU ea- oh crap now we're at 253/262 CPU.
At max skills.
With a mid slot still free.

Ok you probably don't need any more on how the ship is terrible, whole essays could be written on that. Let's talk fixing it.

It's pretty obvious what this ship is meant to do, but it doesn't have the fitting space to do it. Buff the power grid to the point where it's at about 66 with max skills. That allows for a full rack of lights with supporting mid/low modules, but you still need to compromise somewhere to get a heavy tank on.

Additionally: buff the CPU to the point it's in the region of 300 with max skills, because being over on CPU with the bare basics of a light missile fit, on a Caldari ship, is ridiculous.

The Corax could be a workable ship, but it's got a totally schizophrenic array of bonuses, slots and fitting room and there's no reason to fly it. The fix however is so laughably simple though that it's well worth doing.
Iain Cariaba
#2 - 2015-06-20 21:16:22 UTC
Rant much?
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#3 - 2015-06-20 21:21:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Rant much?


Well I figured I'd throw in a few actual reasons it's a joke of a ship for people who legitimately don't know.

Then I threw in a lengthy rant afterwards because what the hell.
Arla Sarain
#4 - 2015-06-20 21:28:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Arla Sarain
Someone had a longbow fit (which is probably an oxymoron considering the flight time). 3 sebos and missile velocity rigs. 1.5k Alpha and 100km range.

Rage rockets do not apply full damage to a single webbed target. So the explosion velocity bonus does have merit in fits that rely on a single web. Rage rockets also have reduced range. Additionally, missiles range depends on relative speeds of of the target - the range bonus ensures your victim cannot exploit that within scram range.

Its not a bad fleet ship with matching support. Fit all mids with shield tank, give them a warp in and just let them sit there with 10k EHP. Bring some dedicated webbers and TPs, apply perfect damage to everything within 20kms.

Gallente FW dudes would land a bunch of cheap ones with double extenders and LMLs into plexs to fight longbow corms. Launch a couple of volleys and warp out.
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#5 - 2015-06-20 21:36:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington
Arla Sarain wrote:
Someone had a longbow fit (which is probably an oxymoron considering the flight time). 3 sebos and missile velocity rigs. 1.5k Alpha and 100km range.


Good for them. They found a niche, skill-intensive "role" that could be done better by numerous other ships. I'm legitimately surprised someone has actually come to the defence of this waste of database space but hey.

Quote:
Rage rockets do not apply full damage to a single webbed target. So the explosion velocity bonus does have merit in fits that rely on a single web. Rage rockets also have reduced range. Additionally, missiles range depends on relative speeds of of the target - the range bonus ensures your victim cannot exploit that within scram range.


The Corax lacks the speed to be a proper brawler both in terms of tackling and range dictation. Having an entire bonus wasted just for a rage-rocket induced damage boost is similarly stupid, when other ships can do the same job better.

Quote:
Its not a bad fleet ship with matching support. Fit all mids with shield tank, give them a warp in and just let them sit there with 10k EHP. Bring some dedicated webbers and TPs, apply perfect damage to everything within 20kms.


Ridiculously stupid "role" that other dessies do better, and without needing support ships I might add.

Quote:
Gallente FW dudes would land a bunch of cheap ones with double extenders and LMLs into plexs to fight longbow corms. Launch a couple of volleys and warp out.


An incredibly tiny FW niche is not a reason to gimp a ship.

I've yet to see a legitimate argument for this ship being adequate.
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#6 - 2015-06-20 21:42:01 UTC
Before modifying the hull, I would like to see the effects on this ships done by the coming midslot missile bonus to help the range, this could maybe make the rocket brawler suddenly way better with range script.
I agree that fitting light missile launcher is insanity on this destroyer for now.

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”

Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#7 - 2015-06-20 21:43:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington
Kiddoomer wrote:
Before modifying the hull, I would like to see the effects on this ships done by the coming midslot missile bonus to help the range, this could maybe make the rocket brawler suddenly way better with range script.
I agree that fitting light missile launcher is insanity on this destroyer for now.


I would recommend re-reading the OP. It points out quite bluntly that the new modules don't help at all, because the CPU on this ship is a joke. That and it doesn't exactly need tracking mods because it has... you know... a bonus for it.

Thanks for commenting, but would've been nice if you'd taken 20 seconds to read what the actual problem is.

Or if you knew the first thing about the ship in question, that'd be good as well.
Nyalnara
Marauder Initiative
#8 - 2015-06-20 22:35:24 UTC
Been asked by a few corpmates while i was in FW, to come up with a good Corax fit...

Best response i could give was "Train for Flycatcher. Yes i know, it's a bit long but you've got no other choice if you want a caldari missile dessie. Your fault you said no talwar."

Then CCP added the Jackdaw, and response became "Train for Jackdaw. Yes i know, it's expensive, but at least it's sturdy, has good mobility & awesome damage."




Seriously, i've tried to do something of it, and the only thing i managed to come up with, which was not a complete waste of money because something was already doing it better, was a PvE boat. And that's only because the MWD sig radius penalty of the talwar is clearly intended more usefull for PvP.

French half-noob.

Non, je ne suis pas gentil.

Specia1 K
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#9 - 2015-06-20 22:49:35 UTC
[Corax, corax lml]

7x Light Missile Launcher II (Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile)

5MN Microwarpdrive II
Sensor Booster II (Targeting Range Script)
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Small Shield Extender II

Ballistic Control System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Small Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I
Small Ancillary Current Router II

That's about the best I can do with LMLs. You could swap the Small Extender and put in a meta4 sensor damp.

Targets at 90km, range to 87km with faction missiles. Will still get killed by the Talwar, hence the sensor damp suggestion.

[shrugs]
Agreed, a few points of CPU added would let you fit the DCU in this fit. The meta DCU's cost more than the bloody ship...

Champion of the Knights of the General Discussion

Thunderdome

Caligula Gaius Claudian
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2015-06-21 01:36:25 UTC
[Lolax]

Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Small Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 25
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
1MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner

Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket x7

Small Bay Loading Accelerator I
Small Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#11 - 2015-06-21 01:55:34 UTC
[Corax, Corax?]
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
5MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive
Small Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 25
Small Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 25

Arbalest Compact Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Arbalest Compact Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Arbalest Compact Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Arbalest Compact Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Arbalest Compact Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Arbalest Compact Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Arbalest Compact Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Ancillary Current Router I


Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp

ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#12 - 2015-06-21 02:19:54 UTC
Quote:
3. Ranting is prohibited.

A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.

Thread locked. If you want to provide feedback, you can do so in a constructive non-rant kind of way. If you have suggestions on improving the Corax, you can also post those in a constructive non-rant kind of way.

ISD Decoy

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department