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Shield power relays are already quite strong, don't think they need a buff.

Shield Flux Coils are already kinda questionable in their worth. The proposed changes don't seem to be able to change anything in that regard. On top of that the t2 version seems oddly placed with basically no feelable advantage over the compact/restrained choice.

Also this.

+1 Supported - Sorry if I double posted.

Definitely dartboard

Hi,
Shield Power Relays and Shield Flux Coils look good. The shield recharger competes with a Invul most equivalently (provides omni tank). Make it so the recharger is better than a third invul. Say 5% better regen than with a third invul.

So the trade off is approx 5% better regen and 14 less cpu for 20% more ehp and 3 cap per sec.

Cheers,
Neug

Shield flux coils and shield rechargers are basically useless. Something should be done about that.

I passive tank PVP fits a lot. My three current favorite fits for passive tanking in PVP are;
Passive Svipul

[Svipul, Passive]

Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II

Medium Shield Extender II
Warp Disruptor II
[Empty Med slot]
5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive

200mm AutoCannon II
200mm AutoCannon II
200mm AutoCannon II
200mm AutoCannon II
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I

Small Core Defense Field Extender II
Small Core Defense Field Extender II
Small Core Defense Field Extender II


[Jackdaw, Passdaw]

Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Tracking Speed Disruption Script
5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
EM Ward Amplifier II
Republic Fleet Medium Shield Extender
Warp Disruptor II

Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile
[Empty High slot]

Small Core Defense Field Purger II
Small Core Defense Field Purger II
Small Core Defense Field Purger II


[Nereus, Shortcat]

Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Damage Control II
Shield Power Relay II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Scrambler II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Small Diminishing Power System Drain I
200mm AutoCannon II

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I


Warrior II x3
Hornet EC-300 x3

The tanking numbers, from the top;
Svipul - 140 DPS tank
Jackdaw - 252 DPS tank
Nereus 'Shortcat' - 458 DPS tank

In none of those fits does either a shield recharger do anything to improve tank. Nominally the passive Jackdaw benefits by 50 HP per second in passive tank, but it loses so much raw EHP you end up unable to tank much anyway. This is because even a weak hit will dip you below your passive recharge peak and you don't recover, so passive tanking requires actual buffer.

This is why shield flux coils are unused; yes you gain % recharge but by losing your shield hitpoints you end up basically back in the same position in reality. I mean, the results of PYFA and EFT theorycraft are sustained by real world testing of fits in the game - you suffer if you use SFC's and not SPR's.

Flux coils are only distinguished from SPR's by the lack of cap penalty. For example, if you replace the SPRs in the Shortcat with SFC's your tank goes from 458 DPS to 332 DPS. Yes, you have better cap stability, but that's irrelevant mostly. You can claw some of that back by going full purger rigs but it's still not useful. Yes, you are cap stable, but you can still run a point using a small Nosferatu - after all very low capacitor levels caused by SPR's recharge quite fast, and the Nos cycles faster than a web, point, invul, so you can sustain tank and point long enough to be efficient bait.

That's what passive fits are used for - bait, in PVp, or just for low-DPS ratting fits.

What is needed in a rebalance of shield buff modules is dispensing with the current three option which are;
rechargers - % buff to shield recharge rate
power relays = capacitor penalty and recharge rate buff
flux coils = hitpoint penalty and recharge bonus

also, the Power Diagnostic is also of note;
shield capacity and shield recharge and capacitor amount and recharge bonus (4 positives)

thereafter, the rig options for passive tanking are;
purger rigs = recharge bonus and sig penalty
extender rigs = hitpoint bonus and sig penalty

What is needed is a rationalisation of these three modules into two. They are all focused around recharge rate.
For passive tanking, you need a large pool of shield hitpoints and a short time to recharge them.
eg; 10,000 raw hitpoints recharging over 600 seconds = 16 raw HP/sec
10,000 raw hitpoints recharging over 300 seconds = 32hp/s

if you put on an SFC and the rate goes up 20% but the hitpoints go down 15%, you aren't much better off.
10,000 @ 600s = 16hp/s
8,500 @ 480s = 17.7 hp/s = 10% net benefit but lower EHP.

Iterate that two times more, for 4 SFC's you get to 6141 hp @ 300s = 20hp/s

Or you go SPR's, and the rate goes up but the hitpoints remain stable, so you get to 10,000 @ 300s = 33.3 hp/s. So you can see why SFC's suck and SPR's are the way to go. I mean, why tiercide SFC's at all?

Therefore the modules to help passive tanking should be;
midslots: shield rechargers which reduce shield recharge time (ie; recharge the shield hitpoint pool faster)
lowslot flux coil which buffs recharge time
shield power relays which could be an active module, which swaps capacitor recharge into shield recharge when active.

ie; if you recharge 20 capacitor per second the power relay takes some of this capacitor and converts it into shield hitpoints in a constant fashion.

For example, a SPR Tech 1 would convert 50% of capacitor regen into shield hitpoints. A T2 converts 75%. This could be stacking penalised such that four SPR's would result in 90% or 95% or 99% efficiency at converting cap into shield.

This would create an interesting mechanic in tradeoffs - you could use a capacitor battery and CCC's to up your cap regen rate to provide power to your SPR's. You could active cap inject to provide juice for your SPR's. Your passive energy -> shield conversion could be disrupted by neuting. You aare sacrificing DPS for this, of course, since it's a lowslot module.

Has CCP considered this kind of module? it would be an interesting mechanism for a fairly predictable set of fits - drake, Shortcat, Svipul, jackdaw and Rattler.

This ^^

this

How about y'all finish ship teiricide. Just another incomplete feature from CCP.