Player Features and Ideas Discussion

You aren't going to fit much of a tank to an Interceptor after putting on an expanded launcher. Even the expanded Sisters' launcher is 210 CPU, and the highest any interceptor has (at all V's) is the Crow, at 206, followed by the Raptor, at 200. The rest are similar or lower (with several of the combat-oriented Interceptors being in the 150's).

You aren't going to have fittings for a tank after the expanded launcher and a MWD.

(Reposting my comment from an other thread as I'm not sure CCP is reading that other thread.)

As a small-gang PvP participant, I see this negatively impacting our ability to get fights. We use punting to get on to hostiles. Sometimes it's our FC, sometimes it's somebody else in a T3D we put into a squad/wing command position. We can't send just a single covops, SB, T3 or T3D to the combat scan result; they'd surely die (and/or the hostiles would be forewarned enough to move out of tackle range) before the rest of the fleet could land. I guess we could use a cloaky scanner who warps to the scan result at range, then wait ten minutes for it to slowboat to the opposite side of the target so we could warp the fleet to the cloaky at range, twiddling our thumbs in the meantime, hoping the hostiles don't notice us and dock up.

Of course, the other small gangs we encounter wouldn't be able to use punting against us either.

So if the goal is to reduce PvP combat in EVE, I guess this is a good way to go about it.

(Maybe a tanked-to-the-gills Hecate with a couple scrams could do the trick though, of scanning down and landing in a hostile fleet, and be able to survive long enough to do it again. That's an expensive "maybe," however.)

To prevent AFKers from being warped i would suggest implementing at least an afk check for fleet warps.

I was almost going to say that fleet warp should be removed entirely. But then there is the issue with ships warping at different speeds. The result would be utterly choatic and bloody engagements escalating from nano skirmishes to hot drops - even though i'd like that very much.
It could be implemented as a message box with an 'OK' button or as a less visually obstructive indicator prompting to press a hotkey (as im not a big fan of popups and radial menus because of the slow input speed to say the least).
Anyway, any form of AFK gameplay needs to be fought. Where AFK miners/pvp'ers suffer the active players will profit. And that's the real point of this change, right ?

There are however concerns remaining regarding the role of CovOps as combat Scanners. My experience with combat probing is in line with other posters here, the reaction time for your target is already long enough, in fact anybody paying Attention to d-scan won't ever be probed out and tackled i swear it, simply because aligning takes so much less time than scanning and warping. It may be because im an experienced prober but i never got caught like that in 3 years.
That being said it would be a bad idea to add another Interceptor warp (from outside d-scan range) to the targets reaction time. The only solution i can come up with from the top of my hat is an extensive CovOps rebalance. Im leaning towards speed tanking and a point range bonus here just because CovOps could also make good use of more speed fulfilling their role as cloaky warpins. When it comes to tackling MJD battleships you would need a completely different set of bonuses though, probably active tanking. I think CCP have got their work cut out for themselves here.

As for the Wormholers:
You guys are the ones who have the necessary ships for warpins in your fleet anyways. What kind of WH corp does not have cloaky eyes on the holes ? WH chains are either scanned down in advance so you can bookmark them or you will have your scanner in place for the warpin. The WH faction seems to be trying very hard to give the impression that this change is harder on them than on anybody else. I just hope CCP does not give into that because the whole point again is to promote certain roles.

P.S.
And yea i think the whole bomber argument was a reach down the toilett and should be left out of the discussion from this point on. A well prepared and properly executed bomb run will not be affected by this change. Though they might become a less common occurence due to the hinderence emposed on them now. This is not a balancing effect at all and it was probably unnecessarily emphasized in the Initial post.

You can fit as much tank on a probe fitted cov ops as a tackle fitted crusader. As for the sig just slap an afterburner on the cov-ops.

There's the exempt from warp button. Use it. Otherwise, people who are afk in an active fleet deserve to die.


You realize "AFK PvP" is an oxymoron, right? If you're AFK in a PvP fleet, you're as good as dead.


One word - recons.


I don't think you know what you are talking about. Let alone understand what the WHers are saying. Those BMs of yours - yeah they aren't going to be warpable to after this change. WHers are a tough bunch, and far from self-entitled cry babies. Don't dismiss their concerns so readily.


Yes, this change will slightly nerf bombers - you cannot neatly warp to 30 on your target blob anymore. However, that nerf does not justify the degradation of gameplay for so many other roles in game.

You won't be using Anathemas and Cheetahs for tackle. Prolly not even a buzzard. No fitting space and no defense. So much for giving these twats combat bonuses or any role beyond a interacting with somewhat clever PVE.

This Helios has 4k EHP, more if you lose the nanos for overdrives. It's sole merit is the 1k hull.


[Helios, Tackle]
Type-D Restrained Nanofiber Structure
Damage Control II
Type-D Restrained Nanofiber Structure

5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Warp Disruptor II
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 200
Scan Acquisition Array I
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Scan Resolution Script

Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I

You can decloak midst warp, about 1AU out and will land with no calibration timer. Not that's a clever idea in its own right, because cloak allows you to position favoruably. You could try recalibration rigs, this drops the timer down to 3.7s with Cloaking V, and rely on victims poor align time to tackle him/her/it.

Still, you cannot compare this to an interceptor because it is "Just as flimsy". This has no drone protection, no practically replenishable tank, and it has to use the sisters launcher, so its a 70mill ships + 10 mill cargo of probes and boosters.

Also, cannot understand where the whole "combat scanning is easy lol" is coming from. On-grid scanning is easy, sure. As a consequence of knowing where your enemy is, you can land probes on top of them, which isn't that much different as to what it was before the changes, you just deploy multiple probes in one go, before you'd need ~40s setup time. Calling it a skill to cycle the launcher a few times is silly.

But offgrid scanning is not easy, and rarely doable in a single scan cycle, after which your chances of getting a hit are slim. The fastest scans are 4 seconds and that's with T2 scan speed module which are out of reach of common probers getting into the role, and implants which are even further out of reach. And this is still easily detected on d-scan.

So, what, you use these to tackle, which require 70mill ISK to set up, 1bil+ in headplants, several months of training (excluding the skills required to pilot the hull), are utterly defenseless with no real competition with T1/ewar/ceptor frigs? I doubt it. This isn't exactly a reasonable set up to fly and tackle with regularly.

I'd like combat probing to become more common and to have reasons not to divert the function to alts; I'd enjoy the role myself, but this change is no motivation for me to do that - worthwhile prober pilots are about as expensive as pirate frigs with billions in pod value. It's just not a practically reasonable tackler.

Cool.

Sleepers are in wormholes.

Yo it's been a week now, wtb update pls.

Well that would certainly make me become uninterested in flying logistics post change.

Awful idea.


Did you miss fozzie saying he wanted to remove fleet warp a while back? I'm pretty sure this change might have been the result...

Wouldn't mind seeing Hictors get some love.