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[AEGIS] Fleet Warp Changes - Please see devblog!

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A55 Burger
Weiland Yutani Corporation
#1661 - 2015-06-19 02:17:46 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
A55 Burger wrote:


I agree completely. That's why I feel a change that affects so many boxes of gameplay shouldn't happen. Small tweaks, not sledgehammers. They changed the release cycle so they could do this.


This is a small change.


I'm not sure what you would define as a big change. Removing all ship movement commands eventually with the exception of go this way, stop, and go really far... that seems like a big change to me.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1662 - 2015-06-19 02:19:23 UTC
A55 Burger wrote:


I'm not sure what you would define as a big change. Removing all ship movement commands eventually with the exception of go this way, stop, and go really far... that seems like a big change to me.


Thats not what this change is.
A55 Burger
Weiland Yutani Corporation
#1663 - 2015-06-19 02:21:52 UTC
Harry Saq wrote:
While I commented on the hilarity of the intended effect vs the real effect, I must say this change is minor, and part of some bells and whistles that there was a time we never had. When things are too easy it just isn't fun, and dropping an armada right on top of someone at will is probably a bit too easy.


There's more than one way to skin a cat, even if I agree with you. Approach, keep at range, and orbit don't affect that armada landing all at once though.
A55 Burger
Weiland Yutani Corporation
#1664 - 2015-06-19 02:25:16 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
A55 Burger wrote:


I'm not sure what you would define as a big change. Removing all ship movement commands eventually with the exception of go this way, stop, and go really far... that seems like a big change to me.


Thats not what this change is.


This change is a part of a set, envisioned to improve things. The discussion was about the set when I started posting in the thread. While you are correct that the beginning of the thread addressed only the fleet warp changes, I and others, including you have talked about the set. Conversations are fluid.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1665 - 2015-06-19 02:30:09 UTC
A55 Burger wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
A55 Burger wrote:


I'm not sure what you would define as a big change. Removing all ship movement commands eventually with the exception of go this way, stop, and go really far... that seems like a big change to me.


Thats not what this change is.


This change is a part of a set, envisioned to improve things. The discussion was about the set when I started posting in the thread. While you are correct that the beginning of the thread addressed only the fleet warp changes, I and others, including you have talked about the set. Conversations are fluid.


This thread is just about this one change when those other changes come, if they ever do, we can kick up a stink about them then. Right now there are no plans to get rid of orbit as they have nothing to replace it.
Harry Saq
Of Tears and ISK
ISK.Net
#1666 - 2015-06-19 02:30:42 UTC
A55 Burger wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
A55 Burger wrote:


I'm not sure what you would define as a big change. Removing all ship movement commands eventually with the exception of go this way, stop, and go really far... that seems like a big change to me.


Thats not what this change is.


This change is a part of a set, envisioned to improve things. The discussion was about the set when I started posting in the thread. While you are correct that the beginning of the thread addressed only the fleet warp changes, I and others, including you have talked about the set. Conversations are fluid.


For those of us too lazy to read all 80 some odd pages, where is this "greater change" source material coming from? I have been RL busy and seemed to have missed that twist (though I have to say, I rather like the idea, anything that makes piloting the ship more directly makes me happy, remember, the change effects us all, so it's not like the other fleet won't be any less unwieldy in their maneuvering).
A55 Burger
Weiland Yutani Corporation
#1667 - 2015-06-19 02:32:42 UTC  |  Edited by: A55 Burger
^^^
http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/3a8pss/recording_of_ccp_fleet_warp_meeting_with_wormhole/



baltec1 wrote:
A55 Burger wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
A55 Burger wrote:


I'm not sure what you would define as a big change. Removing all ship movement commands eventually with the exception of go this way, stop, and go really far... that seems like a big change to me.


Thats not what this change is.


This change is a part of a set, envisioned to improve things. The discussion was about the set when I started posting in the thread. While you are correct that the beginning of the thread addressed only the fleet warp changes, I and others, including you have talked about the set. Conversations are fluid.


This thread is just about this one change when those other changes come, if they ever do, we can kick up a stink about them then. Right now there are no plans to get rid of orbit as they have nothing to replace it.


That's not how I read "CCP Larrikin: I agree, I want anchoring taken out of the game. "

Perhaps my reading of this is askew, but orbit, approach, and keep at range are all methods to anchor. There's no anchor command, so....
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1668 - 2015-06-19 02:42:16 UTC
A55 Burger wrote:


That's not how I read "CCP Larrikin: I agree, I want anchoring taken out of the game. "

Perhaps my reading of this is askew, but orbit, approach, and keep at range are all methods to anchor. There's no anchor command, so....


Saying he would like it gone does not mean it is going to happen. Its something he would like to happen, he did not say it is going to happen.
A55 Burger
Weiland Yutani Corporation
#1669 - 2015-06-19 02:42:43 UTC
Baltec is right in principle though, it isn't strictly on topic, and I'm going to give it a rest on those matters so that I'm not derailing things any more. I just don't feel that there will be a sufficient time for discussion when the rest of this stuff becomes apparent. I also probably won't invest much more until CCP backs away from the ledge.
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1670 - 2015-06-19 04:06:56 UTC
You could have every member play a minigame when they activate warp...like hacking. Two outcomes:

- if they get it right, then Aura says "Warp Drive Active"
- if they fail Aura says "Thank you for your participation, keep trying", while half the fleet warps off.

See? Keyword *participation*. Twisted
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#1671 - 2015-06-19 06:23:20 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Zappity wrote:

To tackle? Lol


Why not? We use just as flimsy interceptors, t1 frigates and Ewar frigs.

"Just as flimsy"? You have got to be kidding. Covops are PAPER thin and clearly not designed for tackle. Interceptors are designed specifically for tackle.

But perhaps you are confused. After all, you seem to think interceptors are for scanning, too.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
beakerax
Pator Tech School
#1672 - 2015-06-19 07:13:09 UTC
Late to the posting party, but setting up or participating in a well-executed punt is just about the most fun I have had in pvp and if it gets removed because of [reason not found] that's a damn shame.
Faren Shalni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1673 - 2015-06-19 08:01:36 UTC
A55 Burger wrote:
^^^
http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/3a8pss/recording_of_ccp_fleet_warp_meeting_with_wormhole/



baltec1 wrote:
A55 Burger wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
A55 Burger wrote:


I'm not sure what you would define as a big change. Removing all ship movement commands eventually with the exception of go this way, stop, and go really far... that seems like a big change to me.


Thats not what this change is.


This change is a part of a set, envisioned to improve things. The discussion was about the set when I started posting in the thread. While you are correct that the beginning of the thread addressed only the fleet warp changes, I and others, including you have talked about the set. Conversations are fluid.


This thread is just about this one change when those other changes come, if they ever do, we can kick up a stink about them then. Right now there are no plans to get rid of orbit as they have nothing to replace it.


That's not how I read "CCP Larrikin: I agree, I want anchoring taken out of the game. "

Perhaps my reading of this is askew, but orbit, approach, and keep at range are all methods to anchor. There's no anchor command, so....


Context is really important you know. This was part of the things he would like to do but not necessarily able to do.

So Much Space
Tau Onyeka
Krusual Syndicate
#1674 - 2015-06-19 08:27:40 UTC
This change a logical next step from the change to drone assignment: less zombie fleets, less F1 fleet cattle. I can see why so many people rage about it Lol

I'm all for it.
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1675 - 2015-06-19 08:34:34 UTC
Tau Onyeka wrote:
This change a logical next step from the change to drone assignment: less zombie fleets, less F1 fleet cattle. I can see why so many people rage about it Lol

I'm all for it.


How does it ensure less "F1 fleet cattle"? The alt you will land on will very probably be the FC's, as it is now.

Only guaranteed change is "F1 fleet cattle" going from bored to slightly more bored.
Dun'Gal
Myriad Contractors Inc.
#1676 - 2015-06-19 08:42:29 UTC
Midnight Hope wrote:
You could have every member play a minigame when they activate warp...like hacking. Two outcomes:

- if they get it right, then Aura says "Warp Drive Active"
- if they fail Aura says "Thank you for your participation, keep trying", while half the fleet warps off.

See? Keyword *participation*. Twisted

Honestly if they want to remove fleet warp then yea im all for this. Should apply to all warps though, so even warping about solo you should be forced into this mini-game. Want to leave Jita, play mini-game, if you fail, you get to sit where you are on the Jita undock. Should also apply it to jumping gates, passing through wormholes, activating guns, active tanking mods, etc. Eve would be the most interactive game EVER.
Tau Onyeka
Krusual Syndicate
#1677 - 2015-06-19 08:47:53 UTC
Awkward Pi Duolus wrote:
Tau Onyeka wrote:
This change a logical next step from the change to drone assignment: less zombie fleets, less F1 fleet cattle. I can see why so many people rage about it Lol

I'm all for it.


How does it ensure less "F1 fleet cattle"? The alt you will land on will very probably be the FC's, as it is now.

Only guaranteed change is "F1 fleet cattle" going from bored to slightly more bored.


less ability for an FC to control it all = more requirements on the fleet to be active and prepared => less viability for non-effort cattle fleets who's only effort was to actually log in and do as they're told.

That whole sound cloud is nothing but this:

"CCP, this change that you're proposing has a side effect, it's hurting our fleet backbone"

"well, yeah"

"that can't possibly be the reason to do it, are you going to change or compensate for that?

"err, no"

"Y U DO DIS!"

"because we want to nerf your lol fleets :reasons:"

"YOU'RE SO STUPID!"
Lim Hiaret
Hiaret Family
#1678 - 2015-06-19 09:55:08 UTC
Suggestion for the removal of the fleet warp mechanic:


  1. Fully remove fleet warp mechanic! If a group wants to warp to a certain spot together all have to click warp in a synchronized way (for example 3 … 2 … 1 … warp).
  2. To allow a fleet to arrive all at the same time, which is important for fleet tactics, allow users to set warp speed to a value less than the ship max warp speed.
  3. To allow a fleet to warp to the same spot, add a broadcast warp to coordinates. Available for ANY coordinates the broadcaster has.


Additional ideas:
Add an on-screen countdown timer initiated by FC. Add a nice big green arrow which points towards the broadcasted coordinates. Explore the possibility to overheat the warp drive.

The protection of sniper fleets is a totally different issue and should not be tackled this way. For that a new bubble for interdictors that greatly increases the scan deviation for ships and objects inside. High-skilled probers should still be able to get a warp in, but even with pre-positioned probes generally not on first try. The bubble should be time limited of course, same time as the existing ones. The analogy to an existing mechanic is of course interdictor probes vs. mobile warp disruptor field.

p.s.: not sure if that is still the right place to post this
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1679 - 2015-06-19 10:37:46 UTC
Zappity wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Zappity wrote:

To tackle? Lol


Why not? We use just as flimsy interceptors, t1 frigates and Ewar frigs.

"Just as flimsy"? You have got to be kidding. Covops are PAPER thin and clearly not designed for tackle. Interceptors are designed specifically for tackle.

But perhaps you are confused. After all, you seem to think interceptors are for scanning, too.


Anathema 2.3k ehp base

crusader 2.16k ehp base

Yea, just as flimsy.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#1680 - 2015-06-19 10:55:59 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Zappity wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Zappity wrote:

To tackle? Lol


Why not? We use just as flimsy interceptors, t1 frigates and Ewar frigs.

"Just as flimsy"? You have got to be kidding. Covops are PAPER thin and clearly not designed for tackle. Interceptors are designed specifically for tackle.

But perhaps you are confused. After all, you seem to think interceptors are for scanning, too.


Anathema 2.3k ehp base

crusader 2.16k ehp base

Yea, just as flimsy.

Don't be silly. Fit some tank on the Crusader. Check. Not to mention it comes with built in sig reduction.

Fit some tank on the Anathema. Oh wait you can't because there is no fitting left after the Expanded probe launcher. And there's no sig reduction either.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.