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[AEGIS] Fleet Warp Changes - Please see devblog!

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kraken11 jensen
ROOKS AND KRAKENS
#1121 - 2015-06-13 18:57:34 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Tatsuj Khan wrote:
Some posters casually dismiss the serious concerns of wormhole residents, with pithy statements like get warp-to scouts to sit on the WHs in our chains. Imagine if system gates are NOT 'public' and you need to have scouts sit on zero on them for fleet OPs. For huge alliance such as the goons and pl with hundreds of ships at their disposal in their regions, it's not a problem. But for many much smaller, corps the changes are a problem.



Sounds like a perfect time to go recruit some new players and get them into low SP scout ships.



the bookmark delay, and not to be able to warp fleet to wormhole bookmarks 'etc. would be an really big extra pain in the ass.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1122 - 2015-06-13 19:02:11 UTC
kraken11 jensen wrote:

the bookmark delay, and not to be able to warp fleet to wormhole bookmarks 'etc. would be an really big extra pain in the ass.


So have your scouts fit for speed.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#1123 - 2015-06-13 19:02:30 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Tatsuj Khan wrote:
Some posters casually dismiss the serious concerns of wormhole residents, with pithy statements like get warp-to scouts to sit on the WHs in our chains. Imagine if system gates are NOT 'public' and you need to have scouts sit on zero on them for fleet OPs. For huge alliance such as the goons and pl with hundreds of ships at their disposal in their regions, it's not a problem. But for many much smaller, corps the changes are a problem.



Sounds like a perfect time to go recruit some new players and get them into low SP scout ships.


Sounds like a perfect time for CCP to attract some new players to the game so we can recruit them. That would involve not making bone-headed suggestions that make Eve less fun to play.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

OverLord V1C70RY
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1124 - 2015-06-13 19:04:17 UTC
yet another update that ruins some people game..

it have to stop somewhere, players play the game because they like it as it is, changing its balance to a degree is a good thing Fozzie. Changing the major things that make the game work is NOT good Mr Fozzie.

You just changed how bomber fleets work, how MOST pilots act in the fleet. meaning that yet again you pissed off a lot of your clients. Sorry Fozzie but i really fail to see how thats a good outcome.

Please stop changing/ruining our game.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1125 - 2015-06-13 19:06:45 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:


Sounds like a perfect time for CCP to attract some new players to the game so we can recruit them. That would involve not making bone-headed suggestions that make Eve less fun to play.


So that means you approve of this change as it gives newer pilots a very wanted fleet role.
Jeanne Tivianne
#1126 - 2015-06-13 19:06:48 UTC
kraken11 jensen wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Tatsuj Khan wrote:
Some posters casually dismiss the serious concerns of wormhole residents, with pithy statements like get warp-to scouts to sit on the WHs in our chains. Imagine if system gates are NOT 'public' and you need to have scouts sit on zero on them for fleet OPs. For huge alliance such as the goons and pl with hundreds of ships at their disposal in their regions, it's not a problem. But for many much smaller, corps the changes are a problem.



Sounds like a perfect time to go recruit some new players and get them into low SP scout ships.



the bookmark delay, and not to be able to warp fleet to wormhole bookmarks 'etc. would be an really big extra pain in the ass.


You get your new low SP scout friend to warp to the site to scout. At the point the all-clear is given, warp to the scout.

If you don't need to go to the sight right away, then have the scout make a corp bookmark. The delay does not apply to this since you are delaying going to the site right away anyway.

Way I see it, this is more fun than waiting for some pilot I have most likely never met face-to-face tell me to press F1 while he does all the rest of the work.

Unless, you know, I am missing something.
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1127 - 2015-06-13 19:08:38 UTC
Teacher'sPet wrote:
no more 1 person with 87 Dominix accounts warping to one location at the same time.
+1 for not enabling multiboxers any longer.


Because this stops him from adding a 88th account to probe his domis onto something how? Makes it more tedious, does not require a 2nd person, makes it harder for other fleet that is trying to juggle probers onto nasty isboxer. This "solution" therefore fails again.
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1128 - 2015-06-13 19:17:16 UTC
OverLord V1C70RY wrote:
yet another update that ruins some people game..

it have to stop somewhere, players play the game because they like it as it is, changing its balance to a degree is a good thing Fozzie. Changing the major things that make the game work is NOT good Mr Fozzie.

You just changed how bomber fleets work, how MOST pilots act in the fleet. meaning that yet again you pissed off a lot of your clients. Sorry Fozzie but i really fail to see how thats a good outcome.

Please stop changing/ruining our game.


You're right, good sir. The current CCP thinks everyone wants to play the game like PL. And you can't blame them, a lot of them *are* PL. At this rate, they will certainly end up with all those elite and elite-wannabes, but the server will be 1/5-th the size.
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1129 - 2015-06-13 19:21:28 UTC
Jeanne Tivianne wrote:

Way I see it, this is more fun than waiting for some pilot I have most likely never met face-to-face tell me to press F1 while he does all the rest of the work.

Unless, you know, I am missing something.


You're assuming this does not happen already. People are asked to step up for scout roles and they are crucial for fleets. I don't understand why people keep assuming scouts and warp-ins don't exist at the moment. They do, and they do exactly what we're talking about.

You also assume that FCs actually prefer to do ALL the work while you remain a monkey. If you are in such a corp/alliance, feel free to move - your enthusiasm and interest will be welcome elsewhere.
Shadowforge Dawkins
Un.Reasonable
#1130 - 2015-06-13 19:26:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Shadowforge Dawkins
Jeanne Tivianne wrote:
kraken11 jensen wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Tatsuj Khan wrote:
Some posters casually dismiss the serious concerns of wormhole residents, with pithy statements like get warp-to scouts to sit on the WHs in our chains. Imagine if system gates are NOT 'public' and you need to have scouts sit on zero on them for fleet OPs. For huge alliance such as the goons and pl with hundreds of ships at their disposal in their regions, it's not a problem. But for many much smaller, corps the changes are a problem.



Sounds like a perfect time to go recruit some new players and get them into low SP scout ships.



the bookmark delay, and not to be able to warp fleet to wormhole bookmarks 'etc. would be an really big extra pain in the ass.


You get your new low SP scout friend to warp to the site to scout. At the point the all-clear is given, warp to the scout.

If you don't need to go to the sight right away, then have the scout make a corp bookmark. The delay does not apply to this since you are delaying going to the site right away anyway.

Way I see it, this is more fun than waiting for some pilot I have most likely never met face-to-face tell me to press F1 while he does all the rest of the work.

Unless, you know, I am missing something.


You are missing something, you don't live in a wormhole from what I can tell... #1 RULE of wormhole space is what? CLOAK. what do scouts do? Cloak and dagger. What do paranoid wormhole bears do? put scouts at 15km from wormhole.

What you are missing is if we have a scout at 0 on a wormhole, as with gates, you are De-cloaked. enemy scout can see you, they are gone or now prepping an ambush. The element of surprise is a vital component in wormhole space combat.

What you are missing #2; Most wormhole corps don't have low SP counter parts. If you don't have cloaking 4 minimum, a covops ship you are either in one of the wormhole newb training corps or you are a daytripper. Some lower requirement WH corps entail.... about 10-12 million SP. So don't expect a low SP friend to do that.

What you are missing #3; As a person who enjoys bringing friends and others into games I enjoy playing, I'm not going to force a new player into boredom sitting his hide on a wormhole as a scout, he/she will be a part of the fight even if I think they will get killed because that is what gets people to stay in this game when it comes to PVP. That they are IN the fights, not hearing about it over the comms.

Edit; Some corps require up to 25-30, even 40 million SP to even ASK for them to look at you.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1131 - 2015-06-13 19:26:34 UTC
Awkward Pi Duolus wrote:

You're assuming this does not happen already. People are asked to step up for scout roles and they are crucial for fleets. I don't understand why people keep assuming scouts and warp-ins don't exist at the moment. They do, and they do exactly what we're talking about.


Right now the FC ship is also the probing ship most of the time, they don't need an alt.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#1132 - 2015-06-13 19:27:19 UTC
Tappits wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Airi Cho wrote:
... How does it kill NPSI?
Newbies don't get left behind so much and as a result tend to live a bit longer.
Teach them how to fly their ships then and ...
Information overload.
It is a thing.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1133 - 2015-06-13 19:29:17 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Shadowforge Dawkins wrote:


You are missing something, you don't live in a wormhole from what I can tell... #1 RULE of wormhole space is what? CLOAK. what do scouts do? Cloak and dagger. What do paranoid wormhole bears do? put scouts at 15km from wormhole.

What you are missing is if we have a scout at 0 on a wormhole, as with gates, you are De-cloaked. enemy scout can see you, they are gone or now prepping an ambush. The element of surprise is a vital component in wormhole space combat.

What you are missing #2; Most wormhole corps don't have low SP counter parts. If you don't have cloaking 4 minimum, a covops ship you are either in one of the wormhole newb training corps or you are a daytripper. Some lower requirement WH corps entail.... about 10-12 million SP. So don't expect a low SP friend to do that.

What you are missing #3; As a person who enjoys bringing friends and others into games I enjoy playing, I'm not going to force a new player into boredom sitting his hide on a wormhole as a scout, he/she will be a part of the fight even if I think they will get killed because that is what gets people to stay in this game when it comes to PVP. That they are IN the fights, not hearing about it over the comms.


I question if you have ever left highsec because your fleets would be silly easy to catch. As for boring gameplay, who wants to sit in a fleet where one guy is doing all the work? A scout in a battle is one of the most action packed roles you can have in EVE.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1134 - 2015-06-13 19:30:30 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Tappits wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Airi Cho wrote:
... How does it kill NPSI?
Newbies don't get left behind so much and as a result tend to live a bit longer.
Teach them how to fly their ships then and ...
Information overload.
It is a thing.


New players absorb info like a sponge, its the mid term players who are stuck in their ways that are hard to teach.
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1135 - 2015-06-13 19:36:42 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Awkward Pi Duolus wrote:

You're assuming this does not happen already. People are asked to step up for scout roles and they are crucial for fleets. I don't understand why people keep assuming scouts and warp-ins don't exist at the moment. They do, and they do exactly what we're talking about.


Right now the FC ship is also the probing ship most of the time, they don't need an alt.


Very rarely, when he feels ballsy enough to fit links, AND a combat probes, AND evade anti-booster hunters.

More often than not, one FC alt is in an off-grid or on-grid boosting ship that is just boosting in the FC/WC position. The other alt is probing stuff down, that the first alt then warps people to. Which is what this "change" supposedly wants to force.

Ask your skirmish commanders who are in 90% of fleets by count.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#1136 - 2015-06-13 19:39:14 UTC
Current theory doing the rounds is that Fozzie is a mole for Riot.
It would explain the latest crop of ideas.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1137 - 2015-06-13 19:52:03 UTC
Awkward Pi Duolus wrote:


Very rarely, when he feels ballsy enough to fit links, AND a combat probes, AND evade anti-booster hunters.

More often than not, one FC alt is in an off-grid or on-grid boosting ship that is just boosting in the FC/WC position. The other alt is probing stuff down, that the first alt then warps people to. Which is what this "change" supposedly wants to force.

Ask your skirmish commanders who are in 90% of fleets by count.


I am a skirmish commander.
Cancel Align NOW
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1138 - 2015-06-13 20:35:20 UTC
I can see this change making fleets more dynamic. That is a good thing.
unimatrix0030
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1139 - 2015-06-13 20:40:42 UTC
This change is only for big null sec alliances and everyone else gets the short end of the stick.
Large alliances can spare extra scanners and warps in alts(both in the same person is not possible choose scanning or tackling). Small to medium alliances have ALL the disadvantages.
Bombers fleets will hardly be affected .
What does this even improve? Nothing at all!!!
There will be less ships exploding because you won't catch anyone.
Wormhole space will get even emptier then before, catching fleets will be impossible.
Getting to a new chain will take a lot longer.
Catching people in sites will become impossible.
Maybe we can add a 5 minute delay in null sec to see the warp beacon of a gate, see how you guys like it.

No local in null sec would fix everything!
Tappits
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#1140 - 2015-06-13 20:54:24 UTC
Miner Hottie wrote:

As one of Eve's most elite players are you willing to help teach Eve newbies?


Yes, yes i am, that's why i am one of the main Dir's in Pandemic horde and have also done some live classes for them. and also almost always online doing stuff for the new beans. maybe you should not try callout out people for not helping new players before finding out the facts of what people do in eve.