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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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[AEGIS] Fleet Warp Changes - Please see devblog!

First post First post First post
Author
Marech Bhayanaka
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#981 - 2015-06-12 22:31:52 UTC
Tara Read wrote:

That's a terrible excuse Manfred. Come on.... so you expect other FC's to force other people to play fleet jockey or get another account.

And while we are on the topic, it sucks that FCs need other players to do the shooting and ewar, and control the drones. Think of the poor masses forced to interact with game like this!

Marech.
Sakul Aubaris
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#982 - 2015-06-12 22:36:43 UTC
Rowells wrote:
didthat hurt wrote:
Rowells wrote:
didthat hurt wrote:
Your initial goal from this was to nerf bombers:

Since when?



Since the initial post on page one, which was quoted in my reply.

The one that literally mentioned it's not just for bombers?


The initial goal is to remove the posibillitiy to relocate your whole fleet with the bookmarks/ combatscanresulst of a single person in just one second.

Interceptors and cloaky scouts are the new way to add a bid more delay and complexity.

In wh space there is allmost allways a scout with the fleet, who can give you a warpin on a wh.
Ceptors are already part of most midscale and bigger fleet, because they are great tackling ships and give you purges easily.

Yes it might be a bit more complex, but when ccp removed other features, a lot of guys complained about eve getting to easy:
Here is your new "challenge". Adopt it, or die.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#983 - 2015-06-12 22:37:25 UTC
Marech Bhayanaka wrote:
Tara Read wrote:

That's a terrible excuse Manfred. Come on.... so you expect other FC's to force other people to play fleet jockey or get another account.

And while we are on the topic, it sucks that FCs need other players to do the shooting and ewar, and control the drones. Think of the poor masses forced to interact with game like this!

Marech.


Oh how the they feel the loss of having the whole fleet assisting their drones to them.
AlienFury
Doomheim
#984 - 2015-06-12 23:01:54 UTC
this is a horribad idea for reasons mentioned.

Attentionyou guys need to work on opening station doors and leave fleet warps aloneAttention
Sirran The Lunatic
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#985 - 2015-06-12 23:06:46 UTC
Want to command Fleets? Better sub an alt account.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$lolccp

Also, all this "rip bombers" "rip petes" garbage....

But yeah. Alt account$. Well played.
Laena Solette
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#986 - 2015-06-12 23:07:52 UTC
RIP Miningfleet controlled by one person?!
If a neut comes in the system, what can i do with my fleet?
-I can't use a fleetwarp to the POS-location
-I can't use a fleetwarp to a deepsave

-I can use a fleetwarp to the station (Interdictors have fun)
-I can warp to my Rorqualpilot and pray, that no fleetmember bump it outsite the forcefield -.-
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#987 - 2015-06-12 23:13:08 UTC
Laena Solette wrote:
RIP Miningfleet controlled by one person?!
If a neut comes in the system, what can i do with my fleet?
-I can't use a fleetwarp to the POS-location
-I can't use a fleetwarp to a deepsave

-I can use a fleetwarp to the station (Interdictors have fun)
-I can warp to my Rorqualpilot and pray, that no fleetmember bump it outsite the forcefield -.-

Warping your fleet to your rorq at 10km is hard.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#988 - 2015-06-12 23:13:16 UTC
Sirran The Lunatic wrote:
Want to command Fleets? Better sub an alt account.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$lolccp

Also, all this "rip bombers" "rip petes" garbage....

But yeah. Alt account$. Well played.


Or you could, you know, get one or two fleet members to do it.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#989 - 2015-06-12 23:14:58 UTC
Sirran The Lunatic wrote:
Want to command Fleets? Better sub an alt account.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$lolccp

Also, all this "rip bombers" "rip petes" garbage....

But yeah. Alt account$. Well played.

Why would you need an alt account?
Why does this theoretical FC not know a single competent scout?
Steven Hackett
NOMADS.
#990 - 2015-06-12 23:21:34 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi Mates,

The original post has been updated with a few more Q&A's answering some of your questions. We've got a lot of amazing feedback and we're going to go back to the CSM with some ideas. Expect an update next week.

Have a great weekend!

Please don't. We would like this change to be reviewed by an objective team who will take all of EVE into account, and not just butter their own bread.

Miss EVE 2015 popularity contest isn't a good venue for that sort of things.
Marech Bhayanaka
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#991 - 2015-06-12 23:22:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Marech Bhayanaka
FT Diomedes wrote:
.As it is, you keep multiplying the number of thankless roles that are best done on an alt - because your business strategy seems to be to squeeze as much out of the existing humans as possible.

At the same time, you consistently nerf the ability for one player to control multiple ships doing the same task


Just reread this part of what you wrote. Can you not see how conflicted and improbable it is?

Marech.
BrundleMeth
Black Parrot
National Development and Reform Commission
#992 - 2015-06-13 00:03:25 UTC
RIP EVE...
Marech Bhayanaka
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#993 - 2015-06-13 00:52:12 UTC
Bill Lane wrote:


So you want to take away responsibilities of the FLEET COMMANDER to give more to members.....FLEET COMMANDER to me implies he leads the fleet. FFS


A fleet commander commands the fleet. He doesn't, or shouldn't have to, control their every twitch. Command and control are not the same thing.

Marech.
Lyra Gerie
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#994 - 2015-06-13 01:00:35 UTC
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Lyra Gerie wrote:
I like this change as much as I hate it. I love the idea of individuals being more responsible, but it KILLS quality of living at the same time. Unfortunately the two are fairly closely linked.

This issue goes double in wormholes where bookmarks are used almost more often for logistics than killing or fleet fights.

Perhaps a new deployable anchors and or anchor probes?

An anchor probe would show up on D-scan when launched at a 100% signal before showing on grid. They would have a warp of 4.5 AU/s and EHP around 10-25k depending on meta level and balance. After landing on grid it would auto deploy over 5-15 seconds again based on meta level and balance.

The attackers can now still warp to a target however it gives the target fair warning and time to destroy the probe before the scouts fleet can warp in.

As for deployable anchors they would stay in space for a certain amount of time or require some kind of fuel to stay anchored. There could be those that are short term used in single battles, or long term/more global anchors.



So the guy in the wormhole warps to the bookmark and WWWWWW's up. Then everyone gets fleet warped OMG THE TRAVESTY THAT THOSE EXTRA FEW SECONDS WILL CREATE. THINK OF ALL THE BELLY LENT YOU COULD HAVE PICKED IN THOSE FEW PRECIOUS SECONDS. DAMN YOU CCP DAMN YOU!!!!!!!111ON1E



This post shows you have NO idea how wormhole space works in actual practice and that your hard push to get this in was ignorant and not thought through.

Wormhole chains would require that you have someone ahead of you the whole time, it's not a matter of warping to public gates, but bookmarked wormholes with limited life. If no one is around to bring you through or share the book marks you have to scan them. That's not seconds, but minutes, or depending on the chain and people online to help scan it out, hours.

Logistic chains will be a pain in the ass to set up without fleet warps especially when it's an alliance and not just one corp occupying a wormhole. Sure there is bookmark sharing but even that by itself is a pain in the ass which is why people have been pushing for alliance bookmarks.

We're talking an extra 10-30 minutes on average between attacking, defending, logistics and further reliance on bookmark sharing which is already a terrible system. Add to that things like D-scan immune ships, harder to roll holes and so on it seems like CCP is making quality of life terrible for wormhole residents and there are other ways to approach the problem of more individual control in fleet battles. But this solution does too much to too many without regard to them and only with regard to it's effects in null and that is wrong.
Marech Bhayanaka
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#995 - 2015-06-13 01:01:05 UTC
afkalt wrote:

Moving a fleet through a wormhole chain in a cohesive manner WITHOUT needing to put a scout on EVERY bookmark first.

You need ONE scout with bookmarks. The fleet warps to the scout and before they even land he is through the wormhole and off to the next BM. What am I missing here? (Seriously asking.)

Marech.
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
Rote Kapelle
#996 - 2015-06-13 01:27:57 UTC
Marech Bhayanaka wrote:
afkalt wrote:

Moving a fleet through a wormhole chain in a cohesive manner WITHOUT needing to put a scout on EVERY bookmark first.

You need ONE scout with bookmarks. The fleet warps to the scout and before they even land he is through the wormhole and off to the next BM. What am I missing here? (Seriously asking.)

Marech.
Wormholes make people rightly paranoid and they'd rather punt people down a chain than be in the open at what is more or less a permanently blind gate. That and large systems where the scout may take nearly 30 seconds to cross in the first place are why wormholers are so upset.
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#997 - 2015-06-13 01:43:26 UTC
THIS IS THE DUMBEST GOD-DAMNED IDEA I HAVE EVER READ.

There, I said it. Seriously though, why don't you let ISIS just put this game in a cage and burn it to death? There are a zillion and one uses for fleetwarps that don't involve 250-man fleets being moved around like lemmings by bloc-level FCs. If you want to make big fleet ops, "more involving for regular grunts," or whatever then take these warp-targets away from FLEET commanders. For god's sake, leave the ability to squad warp to bookmarks and probe results.

If you do this to the game you are literally worse than Pol Pot. Seriously. I don't use all-caps, bold type, or underlines much, but this absolutely deserves all three. Do not do this.
Marech Bhayanaka
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#998 - 2015-06-13 01:43:26 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

Again, people running the second they see probes has nothing to do with this change.


Actually this seems like one of the few legitimate concerns. It will increase the time between probes appearing and the aggressing fleet landing on grid by the warp time of the probing ship. The concern is that this may significantly increase the probability of the grid being empty when the aggressors arive.

Marech.
Mitchellion Saroir
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#999 - 2015-06-13 02:03:27 UTC
I don't believe anyone has suggested it yet but as a solution to the proposed issue of different sized fleet compositions landing at different time on corp bookmarks such as wormholes (tackle before dps before triage for example) risking the early arrivals being volleyed; Is it possible to add an option for the player to set their warpspeed to the slowest ship in the fleet? That way everyone warps at triage speed and so lands within a few seconds of each other, assuming they were all aligned.

obviously this would have to be able to be toggled else 'fast tackle' would rapidly become a misnomer...
Jenshae Chiroptera
#1000 - 2015-06-13 02:23:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
...

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.