These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[AEGIS] Fleet Warp Changes - Please see devblog!

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#781 - 2015-06-12 14:51:32 UTC
Elenahina wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
afkalt wrote:

You're NOT scouting, that's the point. You're LITERALLY a beacon to no split the unit. Fun it aint.


Thats scouting. Providing warps on the enemy, getting snipe points, burning a safe all of it is scouting and yes it is fun. Every fleet used to have dedicated scouts that did these things.


Whatever happened to that?

Oh yeah, on grid probe alts.



That wasn't my complaint. The complaint is fleet warping at a uniform speed to CORP BMs took it right in the ass for no good reason nor demonstrable reason.
Natya Alekscyev
Doomheim
#782 - 2015-06-12 14:52:58 UTC
So what this means is that say a fc wants to warp fleet to a bm that is say near a sun, and enemy fleet is on their butt. So fc says align sun or bm, and then has to tell everyone to warp individually? Is this made to make it imposible for w-space dwellers to do their thing in groups? Or is it made to cater to the whim of whining individuals who dont have more than one toon.

CCP you are probably going to lose an ungodly amount of people over this sort of stuff. Every multiboxer i know (which is probably 99% of everyone i know ) hate this idea and sees it as a multiboxers worst nightmare. So this route is going to lead to me personally cutting off 5-6 subs, and most of the people i know and previously spoke of will drop accounts as well, just because the fun of playing with multiple toons will now be gone as it will be huge hassle to warp to warp to warp to with 4 different toons without dying every time

Is ccp under new management btw? Cause they used to seem to care about people subbing, now it seems they are at war with all people who play multiple toons.

Seriously CSM , back the pilots up on this one, cause this is the worst change ive seen in years, bookmarks in particular. The remainder is bearable, barely.

KILL FAST , DIE  SLOW
Elana Apgar
Allspark Industries
#783 - 2015-06-12 14:54:57 UTC
Dear CCP Larkin and CCP Fozzie,

This is game breaking for W-Space.

And here are the two main reasons:

The main game breaking reason is:

When travelling in W-Space AS A FLEET you almost always have to Fleet Warp from a bookmark to travel from Wormhole to Wormhole until you get to your destination Wormhole. Sometimes you engage hostiles on a wormhole, other times you Fleet Warp to a specific location, whether it be a safe, bounce off of a tower, a tractor unit/wreck, or even a friendly tower.

If we cannot move as a fleet, this will absolutely break Fleet engagements in W-Space. Just like in Null-Sec it is important to move as a fleet, but unlike Null Sec we do not have Gates on our overview or Stations on our overview. We use bookmarks for safes, wormholes, and POS'.

How can you seriously expect us to do anything in a coordinated manner if we cannot warp as a group? Have you even been involved in wormhole fleet fights to see how it all works? If you'd like specific examples of how various wormhole engagements would be impossible, I'd be more then happy to supply them.

The second reason:

When in wormhole space, you sometimes have to combat scan a small ship to kill him. And often times you need to "throw" a tackle ship at that ship you are combat scanning. With these changes it will be near impossible to catch a small ship because by the time your combat scan ship lands the target will quite possibly be gone, or if you tackle in the scan ship, it might not survive until help arrives.

I am strongly URGING you to reconsider how this change will IRREPARABLY DAMAGE W-Space before implementing this. W-Space in many ways is struggling, and this could very well destroy it. I really don't understand why CCP feels the need to have all changes in the game revolve around Null Sec.

Thank you for your time.
Canenald
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#784 - 2015-06-12 14:56:57 UTC
This pretty much hands most of medium and large fights, where getting a good warp in is extremely important, to groups with more experienced players. It seems to be in contrast to other changes made to lower the entry barrier for new groups in nullsec and increase new player retention.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#785 - 2015-06-12 14:59:30 UTC
Leeluvv wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
So use a warp speed rigged cov-ops or interceptor.


So you want your probing ship to potentially have no probing bonus and no probing rigs?

I'm sure the number of Hard To Probe ratting fits you waddle upon on a daily basis is staggering.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#786 - 2015-06-12 14:59:43 UTC
Well you are not supposed to be using input automation anyways, and I don't see any huge issue being a multi-account user myself. CCP may not be making a better game for Input automators, but they are making it better for everyone else. I fully endorse these new changes, it's going to make big space battles much more dynamic. It will probably slow them down a bit as well due to the changes for probing and warpins. I'm cool with that. I think more stuff will explode.

EXXXPLLOOOSSSIONNNSSSSS!!!!!!!

I'm also positive Michael Bay would approve.
Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
#787 - 2015-06-12 15:04:13 UTC
CCP removal of wspace.
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#788 - 2015-06-12 15:04:21 UTC
Leeluvv wrote:

You can ask your carrier pilot to make rolling safes, doesn't mean it's a sensible fleet decision.


Generally, you want your fastest ship to make your rolling safes, you can keep the fleet moving as rapidly as possible to stop the other fleet landing a punt on you.

In 99% of fleets, that will be one of your scouts burning away from you at 3k plus. Repeat until the other fleet gets bored.

I fail to see how that's a bad decision.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#789 - 2015-06-12 15:06:11 UTC
This proposed change is clearly harsh on the WH population for simple navigation purposes.

How about this - you scan down a WH and warp to it, and once on grid you now have the ability to change it to a celestial on your overview, stargate style? There after warp to it with gusto - you and your fleet in tow.

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
Dentric Crendraven
Doomheim
#790 - 2015-06-12 15:11:06 UTC
Seriously, this is a ******** change. Why would we not be able to fleet warp to a ship we scanned down? Lets say you're in a T3D fleet fighting another T3D fleet. You scan em down, but instead of fleet warping your fleet to them to have to warp yourself in point range where you'll essentially be alpha'd and MAYBE you're lucky and some of your guys warped before you died. It would be the same for any kiting fleet, its not like they already had huge amounts of reasons to be preferred over brawling fleets lets give them another one where you can no longer get faster ships on top of them in scram range very quickly anymore. Might as well just rolle strictly confessors since its not like a Svipul fleet is really gonna get in range to **** that fleet up.

Someone comes into your wormhole in a Nullified Tengu and is warping around your wormhole, why does it make more sense to have to warp a single ship in first, then fleetwarp to the scan ship? This just slows things down unnecessarily.

Fleet warping as it currently is is not broken and never was in any way. WHY change it? Because some Nullsec guy said so? Seriously, think about how **** affects EVERY playstyle, not just nullsec.

Quote:
Bombing has been OP for such a long time,


In what way? Yeah, its a hard counter to Battleships, yeah it allows a small group to do damage to a much larger fleet..

Why is this bad in any way?

How about not bring battleships if you know they have bombers? or Bring Interceptors, Insta Svipuls, Keres, or the many other types that could kill the bomber as soon as they decloak, server tick-wise, if they have enough time to perform 2 actions, (decloak, drop bomb) so do you (Lock, shoot/point).
Leeluvv
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#791 - 2015-06-12 15:11:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Leeluvv
Querns wrote:
Leeluvv wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
So use a warp speed rigged cov-ops or interceptor.


So you want your probing ship to potentially have no probing bonus and no probing rigs?

I'm sure the number of Hard To Probe ratting fits you waddle upon on a daily basis is staggering.


I don't need to probe ratting ships at anomalies in a WH, I can find them on DSCAN easily enough, but smaller ships at a Relic site that may need a dictor dropping on them before they warp off, to give enough time for webs and scram. This isn't just about large fleets, it affects 2 or 3 ship gangs/fleets too.
Terminus Antollare
Un4seen Development
Goonswarm Federation
#792 - 2015-06-12 15:12:33 UTC
You mean to tell me CCP wants us to work together and perhaps actually have to put some thought into the game? I can see why this is so unpopular.
Valterra Craven
#793 - 2015-06-12 15:13:13 UTC
I guess I just don't understand what this goal achieves:
Quote:

The goal of these changes is to encourage more individual fleet member participation and reduce the speed at which fleets can get on top of targets (e.g bombers)


Reducing the speed of fleet to target doesn't create more engagement.
Reducing the speed of fleet to target doesn't change any imbalances or fleet metas
Reducing the speed of fleet to target doesn't change anything of any other relevance other than to add annoyance to almost everyone in game.


Besides, if the goal is JUST to reduce speed of fleet to target, then why not just make all ships in fleet warp fly at a given slow speed like 1AU a sec... It would be really helpful if when you talk about changes you talk about why you have your goal and what the end game actually is.
Heinrich Rotwang
Spectre Fleet Corporation
#794 - 2015-06-12 15:15:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Heinrich Rotwang
I hope I will be able to master the exciting new challenge of getting warped to FCs alt instead of a bookmark. Might consider taking classes and training lessons in preparation of the patch.

This change is totally about making fleet participation more interesting.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#795 - 2015-06-12 15:15:56 UTC
so carebears can still fleet warp dozens of alts around making isk in belts and missions etc, so only for pvp'ers really

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
#796 - 2015-06-12 15:19:45 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
36 pages of tears... well done. My tear cup runneth over.

The fix is simple: have someone in a covops ships warp first, then FC (or individual members, or wing commanders) warps fleet to them. Fixed.


Meanwhile, covops gets decloacked and goes boom. For a large group with a big number of probers this is probably not a problem. But if you're only few people and fighting a bigger group, you can't afford to loose on prober after the other ...
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
#797 - 2015-06-12 15:21:53 UTC
Dentric Crendraven wrote:


Quote:
Bombing has been OP for such a long time,


In what way? Yeah, its a hard counter to Battleships, yeah it allows a small group to do damage to a much larger fleet..

Why is this bad in any way?


bombs have to many damages, it is known
Bowfingerz
Super Villains
Pandemic Horde
#798 - 2015-06-12 15:24:12 UTC
What a waste of time try changing things people want changed mybe ask us first i wonder if you did a poll how many people don't want this changed (i could be wrong).

Why dont you ask the player base what they want fixed and fix those issues first...just saying.

#Thecustomerisalwayswrong eh ccp
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#799 - 2015-06-12 15:26:34 UTC
Leeluvv wrote:
Querns wrote:
Leeluvv wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
So use a warp speed rigged cov-ops or interceptor.


So you want your probing ship to potentially have no probing bonus and no probing rigs?

I'm sure the number of Hard To Probe ratting fits you waddle upon on a daily basis is staggering.


I don't need to probe ratting ships at anomalies in a WH, I can find them on DSCAN easily enough, but smaller ships at a Relic site that may need a dictor dropping on them before they warp off, to give enough time for webs and scram. This isn't just about large fleets, it affects 2 or 3 ship gangs/fleets too.

Take a T3D (I lately killed an AFK travel ceptor at 4km/s with one)
Scan with bonused ship, bookmark, switch to dictor, warp&bubble&profit

I'm my own NPC alt.
Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
#800 - 2015-06-12 15:28:30 UTC
Elenahina wrote:
You need better scouts. If I tell my scout to make rolling safes, and he says, "Ugh, fine if I have to", I will leave his ass to die at the next gate camp (and I might help them kill him).

The FC runs the fleet, the members carry out tasks issued by the FC. If the members are incapable or unwilling to carry out those tasks, replace them. It's just that simple.

Goods need to be hauled. Towers need to be fuelled. Timers need to be alarmclocked. Someone has to run rolling safes. The necessity alone does not exactly make all that stuff exciting. Valuable does not equal fun. I'm not advocating for thunderdomes, but there's complexity, and there's tedium. Those are different things. Flying a ship with a dozen active modules is complexity. Managing a T2 production chain is complexity. Bookmarking gate warping so you don't have to slowboat 15km to gate is tedium. Having a guy who's only purpose is to sit on a perch and watch the carnage unfold is tedium.