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Heavy Assalut Missiles - actually need 2 boosts
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Anthar Thebess
#1 - 2015-06-12 09:32:29 UTC
CCP is planing to boosts heavy missiles.
I hope the same applies to Heavy assault missiles.
But in order for them be useful in something other than PVE and shooting big not moving targets they need additional boosts.

Missile speed needs to be increased drastically.

When engaging slow targets every thing is ok , but when we are talking about MWD cruiser and smaller size engagements most of the times you are just shooting without any big impact , as target you chaise is simply outrunning missiles by running from you.

This speed increase don't need to increase range of those missiles (but it could by around additional 7-10km)

Simply lets not forget that most of the engagements is when ships are boosted by links.

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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#2 - 2015-06-12 10:07:53 UTC
I believe there was something about 'fixing' this with modules. Though it should be in their base stats really
Anthar Thebess
#3 - 2015-06-12 10:13:17 UTC
This must be change in base stats.
Without this this missile never will be in any use, range + speed negates most of the DPS when you are shooting something that is not scramed and double webbed .

If this needs to be compensated by modules, then no one will waste 2 slots to fix those missiles.

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Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#4 - 2015-06-12 12:21:49 UTC
you do realize HAMs are short range weapons right? They apply fine under web, or you can use TP to make them alittle better at appplication under 20km. I think the more reasonable request would be to buff javelin's application a smidge. Since those are the long range HAM missiles, but have pretty poor application.

Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

Make the Muninn great again!
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#5 - 2015-06-12 12:34:23 UTC
HAM's do the same range as torps which tells us they actually need a range nerf and then rockets by default as they have too be lower than HAM's by the usual class size amount.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#6 - 2015-06-12 12:47:23 UTC
If CCP isn't going to nut up and roll back some of the ludicrous power creep of speed that has been going on, yes, missiles need a drastic missile speed increase. Even if they don't, a 20-30% buff would not be out of line either.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Anthar Thebess
#7 - 2015-06-12 13:08:50 UTC
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
you do realize HAMs are short range weapons right? They apply fine under web, or you can use TP to make them alittle better at appplication under 20km. I think the more reasonable request would be to buff javelin's application a smidge. Since those are the long range HAM missiles, but have pretty poor application.


But what did i stated?
That the main problem is not in the range, but in the application :
- if you are chasing MWD cruiser or smaller ship , you will loose most of the dps as missiles will run out of the fuel ( as you are traveling at least at 1.5k m/s)
- The only way to overcome this is scram and double web the target , so it will not move Big smile , painting also help

Main issue is not the range, but missile speed.

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Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2015-06-12 13:28:25 UTC
HAM doesn't need a buff or anything.

700 dps at 30 km for a cruiser is already incredibly overpowered if you ask me...
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#9 - 2015-06-12 13:30:41 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
you do realize HAMs are short range weapons right? They apply fine under web, or you can use TP to make them alittle better at appplication under 20km. I think the more reasonable request would be to buff javelin's application a smidge. Since those are the long range HAM missiles, but have pretty poor application.


But what did i stated?
That the main problem is not in the range, but in the application :
- if you are chasing MWD cruiser or smaller ship , you will loose most of the dps as missiles will run out of the fuel ( as you are traveling at least at 1.5k m/s)
- The only way to overcome this is scram and double web the target , so it will not move Big smile , painting also help

Main issue is not the range, but missile speed.



Then stop trying to chase a cruiser with HAMs. Make them chase you, that extends your range considerably since they're burning at you. Once they turn around to chase you, turn back into them to get scram/tackle. Then your HAMs will apply fine. Or fly a HAM caracal/cerb and have all the range you need with HAMs. Will still have lousy application at range though. Also 1.5km/s is pretty slow, what are you flying? A cyclone? If so, see my thread on buffing BCs in my sig.

You do realize missile speed also translates to missile range right? Increasing speed increases range. Also you contradicted yourself.

You first said "the main problem is not in range, but application", then you said "the main issue is not the range, but speed". So which is it? Application and speed are two different things.

Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

Make the Muninn great again!
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#10 - 2015-06-12 13:35:10 UTC
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
HAM doesn't need a buff or anything.

700 dps at 30 km for a cruiser is already incredibly overpowered if you ask me...


To be fair, without webs/tp/rigor, you are not going to applying that dps at 30km. Also if it were OP, then im pretty sure we would see more missile ships than we do ishtars. Its actually fairly rare for me to see a missile cruiser that isnt a caracal/orthrus.

Missiles need tweaking, but buffing range/speed on HAMs isnt what they need.

Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

Make the Muninn great again!
Anthar Thebess
#11 - 2015-06-12 13:40:37 UTC
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
you do realize HAMs are short range weapons right? They apply fine under web, or you can use TP to make them alittle better at appplication under 20km. I think the more reasonable request would be to buff javelin's application a smidge. Since those are the long range HAM missiles, but have pretty poor application.


But what did i stated?
That the main problem is not in the range, but in the application :
- if you are chasing MWD cruiser or smaller ship , you will loose most of the dps as missiles will run out of the fuel ( as you are traveling at least at 1.5k m/s)
- The only way to overcome this is scram and double web the target , so it will not move Big smile , painting also help

Main issue is not the range, but missile speed.



Then stop trying to chase a cruiser with HAMs. Make them chase you, that extends your range considerably since they're burning at you. Once they turn around to chase you, turn back into them to get scram/tackle. Then your HAMs will apply fine. Or fly a HAM caracal/cerb and have all the range you need with HAMs. Will still have lousy application at range though. Also 1.5km/s is pretty slow, what are you flying? A cyclone? If so, see my thread on buffing BCs in my sig.

You do realize missile speed also translates to missile range right? Increasing speed increases range. Also you contradicted yourself.

You first said "the main problem is not in range, but application", then you said "the main issue is not the range, but speed". So which is it? Application and speed are two different things.


So i cannot use medium weapons against medium sized ship?
Heavy assault missiles are the autocannons/ blasters/ etc class weapon for missile cruiser.

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Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2015-06-12 13:43:54 UTC
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
HAM doesn't need a buff or anything.

700 dps at 30 km for a cruiser is already incredibly overpowered if you ask me...


Look at all them HAM cruisers shitting all over Ishtars...
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#13 - 2015-06-12 13:45:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
HAM doesn't need a buff or anything.

700 dps at 30 km for a cruiser is already incredibly overpowered if you ask me...


To be fair, without webs/tp/rigor, you are not going to applying that dps at 30km. Also if it were OP, then im pretty sure we would see more missile ships than we do ishtars. Its actually fairly rare for me to see a missile cruiser that isnt a caracal/orthrus.

Missiles need tweaking, but buffing range/speed on HAMs isnt what they need.


well i presume the 30km is adding the new missile mod too it as its 16km with rage on a drake, maybe he means on a caracal and navy ammo.
RLML's have overidden HAM's because of light missile tracking, but the fact that HAM's have the same range as torps is OP.

also its been established that ishtars are OP.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#14 - 2015-06-12 13:59:21 UTC
I honestly don't know why there are some people in here arguing that missiles of all things are overpowered, but it's a testament to the insanity of F&I.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#15 - 2015-06-12 14:30:28 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I honestly don't know why there are some people in here arguing that missiles of all things are overpowered, but it's a testament to the insanity of F&I.


i don't think anyone is saying missles as a whole is OP, just range aspects of certain missiles, oh and RLML's are OP

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2015-06-12 18:45:58 UTC
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
HAM doesn't need a buff or anything.

700 dps at 30 km for a cruiser is already incredibly overpowered if you ask me...

then im pretty sure we would see more missile ships than we do ishtars.


I think we would all like to see of other ships than just cruisers all the time.
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#17 - 2015-06-12 20:13:08 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
If CCP isn't going to nut up and roll back some of the ludicrous power creep of speed that has been going on, yes, missiles need a drastic missile speed increase. Even if they don't, a 20-30% buff would not be out of line either.


This x1000.

Address the disease, not the symptom.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract
O X I D E
#18 - 2015-06-12 23:16:45 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
HAM's do the same range as torps which tells us they actually need a range nerf and then rockets by default as they have too be lower than HAM's by the usual class size amount.

Or buff torpedo range. Big smile
Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#19 - 2015-06-13 04:30:50 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I honestly don't know why there are some people in here arguing that missiles of all things are overpowered, but it's a testament to the insanity of F&I.


I decree that anything that has killed me, by definition, is OP and must be nerfed. Only the ships that I am currently flying are ones that are underpowered and need a buff.

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2015-06-13 08:51:20 UTC
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
you do realize HAMs are short range weapons right? They apply fine under web, or you can use TP to make them alittle better at appplication under 20km. I think the more reasonable request would be to buff javelin's application a smidge. Since those are the long range HAM missiles, but have pretty poor application.


It's not application, it's flat up absolute speed to hit at all.

They should just 'mordu' all the base stats so that speed only affects application and outrunning them isn't really practical.
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