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[AEGIS] Fleet Warp Changes - Please see devblog!

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Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#641 - 2015-06-12 11:58:36 UTC
Capqu wrote:
bombers aren't really that affected tbh, except the no brained warp fleet from 4 perches @ 42km style of bombing

we already used wrecks/alts for 90% of our squad warps



this wrecks small entities moving titans/supers tho

because that was super easy before right



as for fleet fights its not going to change anything just make the fc have another alt


oh and rip warping fleets to the sun @ 0 for fun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
Don Pera Saissore
#642 - 2015-06-12 12:01:53 UTC
Junior FC for Spectre fleet here. NPSI fleets have a lot of newbros participating and they have to rely on the fc to keep them safe in some situations. Lets say im engaging a fleet and something else lands on the grid that i cant fight i have to quickly extract and get my fleet members to relative safety. After this update i will have to tell them to keep bouncing celestials until i land on my safespot and then order them o regroup on me. Newbros will get picked off on the sun. Jayne plz reconsider this you know how hard it is to manage a fleet full of newbros.
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#643 - 2015-06-12 12:03:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Moac Tor
Long Muppet wrote:
Manfred Sideous wrote:

To put this into context drone assign was largely removed as we know it. CCP said that they think it is bad when other people play the game for you.


This is a great point Manny! Maybe, just like with drone assign we should allow squad commanders to fleet warp their 10 people. This ensures you are still taking a nerfbat to the ridiculously huge nullsec fleets while not simultaneously killing small gangs.

I get that having a scout in a large fleet isn't a big deal as they generally have many of them, but requiring a small gang to now dedicate one of their pilots as scout is unnecessary and ruins game play. Finding a middle ground (just as we did we drone assign) is the best option.

This option is something I was thinking of myself. It would break down a large fleet into small ten man gangs if they want to maneuver around more precisely to tactical bookmarks and probe results.

It would have the desired effect of making large fleets more difficult for one person to control, but at the same time leaving small gangs and fleets who are organised with their squad commanders unaffected.
l0rd carlos
the king asked me to guard the mountain
#644 - 2015-06-12 12:07:01 UTC
Don Pera Saissore wrote:
Junior FC for Spectre fleet here. NPSI fleets have a lot of newbros participating and they have to rely on the fc to keep them safe in some situations. Lets say im engaging a fleet and something else lands on the grid that i cant fight i have to quickly extract and get my fleet members to relative safety. After this update i will have to tell them to keep bouncing celestials until i land on my safespot and then order them o regroup on me. Newbros will get picked off on the sun. Jayne plz reconsider this you know how hard it is to manage a fleet full of newbros.


Or you could fleet warp them to celestials until a not new bro is on a save spot.

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#645 - 2015-06-12 12:07:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Moac Tor
Ab'del Abu wrote:
Cross-posting what I believe would be a good compromise in this matter

Basically, the idea is to introduce a delay or "spool up" (say 5-15 seconds or so) - similar to micro jump drives - to group warping depending on the size of the group (fleet warping takes comparatively long to squad and wing warps). Add to that, there would be a .

Another good suggestion. ^
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#646 - 2015-06-12 12:10:18 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
afkalt wrote:



Yes but back in the day™ ship warp differences were essentially negligible. This is no longer the case.

Moving mixed compositions becomes a chore. To what gain? Why the heck should I need to put a preliminary ship out somewhere JUST to make sure the mixed fleet doesn't land minutes apart, or have stragglers waiting on grid to initiate a late warp?

It's broken.


You can still warp the fleet to a player.


I know, that was why I said I now HAVE to use a preliminary player to do the massively tactical manoeuvre of warping to a corp BM and waiting.

What on earth is the point in that? It's an useless pain in the ass.

It adds NOTHING but pointless delays and the need for another alt.
Bobmon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#647 - 2015-06-12 12:11:06 UTC
I like it! screw fleet warping, Its boring not to control your own ship and it's not going to have a massive effect on things, like people are scared about.

I mean for bomber fleets, Ok you just have an cloaky alt at the spot you wanted to warp too and if its a specifc location then you just tell your guys to bookmark the spot.

For WH stuff or sites, you simply scan down the sites with an alt, Like you would currently, then if its dangerous, you just put that alt in its pod, warp the site (sleepers etc. dont aggro the pod anyway) and you just warp yourself to that char.

All and all it brings back a little skill in terms of how/when to engage and I like it!

CCP Larrikin (and the team), you are a true bro of bro's, The hero that we deserve

@BobmonEVE - BOBMON FOR CSM 12
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#648 - 2015-06-12 12:14:39 UTC
afkalt wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
afkalt wrote:



Yes but back in the day™ ship warp differences were essentially negligible. This is no longer the case.

Moving mixed compositions becomes a chore. To what gain? Why the heck should I need to put a preliminary ship out somewhere JUST to make sure the mixed fleet doesn't land minutes apart, or have stragglers waiting on grid to initiate a late warp?

It's broken.


You can still warp the fleet to a player.


I know, that was why I said I now HAVE to use a preliminary player to do the massively tactical manoeuvre of warping to a corp BM and waiting.

What on earth is the point in that? It's an useless pain in the ass.

It adds NOTHING but pointless delays and the need for another alt.


It adds gameplay to that preliminary player.
unimatrix0030
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#649 - 2015-06-12 12:17:02 UTC
Sasha Sen wrote:
Zappity wrote:
Seems that this is actually reducing the specialised role of a prober rather than increasing it. I currently use a dedicated prober in a covops (you know, a probing ship) and they warp my cruiser onto targets. If the prober has to tackle then the fit will have to be enormously gimped. And why? That's the whole point of them - to probe, not to tackle.


I am really confused, trying really hard to see why this is bad for you.

You have a prober - check
You got lock on a sig - check
You warp your cov ops to the sig - check
You warp with your combat ship to your scanner - check

What am I missing?

What are you missing?
This :
You see targets warping to safety on the covert ops alt because they saw your probes.
You catch nothing and get no content.

No local in null sec would fix everything!
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#650 - 2015-06-12 12:17:27 UTC
That's clutching at straws and you know it.
Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
#651 - 2015-06-12 12:19:17 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
It adds gameplay to that preliminary player.

Uhh. Yeeah. Right. The same way offgrind links add gameplay to the links pilot. Been there, done that.
unimatrix0030
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#652 - 2015-06-12 12:19:40 UTC
Querns wrote:

You need to be a large wormhole group to afford interceptors?

Interceptors are useless since the targets already warped away after seeing your probes.

No local in null sec would fix everything!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#653 - 2015-06-12 12:20:32 UTC
afkalt wrote:
That's clutching at straws and you know it.


Our frigate pilots just got an important fleet role handed to them.
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#654 - 2015-06-12 12:21:06 UTC
All except when it's just me and my alt - I will seriously miss having the fleet warp function.

Bad change - won't provide any meaningful content or interaction, just more problems.

BadAssMcKill wrote:
Have you considered making the game more fun for a change


I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#655 - 2015-06-12 12:21:22 UTC
Torgeir Hekard wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
It adds gameplay to that preliminary player.

Uhh. Yeeah. Right. The same way offgrind links add gameplay to the links pilot. Been there, done that.


Baltec, I never knew you to be in favor of adding terrible game play. Acting as a bookmark is not good game play.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#656 - 2015-06-12 12:22:37 UTC
unimatrix0030 wrote:
Querns wrote:

You need to be a large wormhole group to afford interceptors?

Interceptors are useless since the targets already warped away after seeing your probes.


We already use probes to get warp in on these fleets, there is zero difference between what we have now and the future in terms of fleets running when they see probes
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#657 - 2015-06-12 12:23:41 UTC
Tara Read wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Tara Read wrote:
Thanks for the compliment even if you meant it as an off the cuff insult. But see here's the disconnect. The reality is people fill many facets and roles in Alliances. In smaller Alliances these roles pass down to a few select people. Placing more burden on these people creates burn out and headaches that in turn create problems.
The problem may then lie in the 'few select people' issue. No gameplay mechanic forces that. And certainly an FC telling his interceptor to move for a warp in isnt adding any more stress than having to run it himself. In a small alliance and even a corp, sometimes its best to trust some basic tasks to others.Heck, they could do that now and would be the better for it in terms of pressure. However, I see fairly little what this has to do with alliance leadership and roles. Unless your few FCs double double as officers and directors.


You still fail to give any of us here a positive answer why these changes are GOOD. Picking apart my posts is fine, but trying to tear at my argument from one angle isn't going to get you anywhere. There's also the issue of grid placement, targets getting away, fleet separation due to warp speed variations, survivability of the on grid warp in, landing on different grids due to mechanic issues, fleet movement during travel, squad warping at missions at range due to beacon issues, probing and tackle becoming nigh impossible for hunting low sec supers, designated "tackle" and possible fleet warp in DC'ing in Tidi leading to a fleet spread and out of place etc etc.

I can go on and keep giving reasons and possible issues with just one facet of these changes. But please go on about how it's clearly my misunderstanding or "lack of game skills" or my "alliances leadership" as your means for justification as to why your argument is valid.

I keep picking be ause you dont seem to understand that a lot of the negatives you bring up are almost completely separate issues.

I already gave you the reason its good. More people with more meaningful things to do. And you keep trying to bring up reasons why giving players meaningful tasks and importance is bad for them. When its entirely unrelated problems.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#658 - 2015-06-12 12:24:19 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Torgeir Hekard wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
It adds gameplay to that preliminary player.

Uhh. Yeeah. Right. The same way offgrind links add gameplay to the links pilot. Been there, done that.


Baltec, I never knew you to be in favor of adding terrible game play. Acting as a bookmark is not good game play.


Terrible gameplay is having one person flying 250 semi afk ships. A scout frigate is fun to fly.
CCP Larrikin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#659 - 2015-06-12 12:25:34 UTC
Hi Internet Space Friends,

Ok, I've caught up on this thread! So many words...Thank you for your passionate responses. We have a bunch of points to work though, expect a post soon addressing them!

Game Designer | Team Phenomenon | https://twitter.com/CCP_Larrikin
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#660 - 2015-06-12 12:25:41 UTC
Don Pera Saissore wrote:
Junior FC for Spectre fleet here. NPSI fleets have a lot of newbros participating and they have to rely on the fc to keep them safe in some situations. Lets say im engaging a fleet and something else lands on the grid that i cant fight i have to quickly extract and get my fleet members to relative safety. After this update i will have to tell them to keep bouncing celestials until i land on my safespot and then order them o regroup on me. Newbros will get picked off on the sun. Jayne plz reconsider this you know how hard it is to manage a fleet full of newbros.

you can fleet warp to celestials still. no changes there.