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[AEGIS] Fleet Warp Changes - Please see devblog!

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bunzing heet
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#561 - 2015-06-12 09:37:03 UTC
I too support individual piloting so depending on Skilled pilots getting warpins is a good change in my eyes i do get concerns with the group pve Side of This change but i think this would be so minimal it isnt a big problem
I dont know enough about wh space so im not talking about that

Fly safe keep killing And remember I'm watching you !!!!
Thea Yulivee
Hobbs End Industries
#562 - 2015-06-12 09:37:55 UTC
Sasha Sen wrote:
Thea Yulivee wrote:



the ignorance..wow

whilst i agree with the changes in general, just the simple fact that smaller corps in WH Space can't have alt-scouts at every WH in the chain they are using, makes me wonder if CCP really thought this through. For bigger corps this won't change to much in the way of handling their day to day routine, but when it comes to small corps or multi-corp fleets this is a major pain

I agree with the statements above, that we need other options to warp to wormholes as a fleet or at least broadcast a bookmark so that every member of the fleet can warp himself. I really hope that the thing Larkin mentioned they are working on, adresses this issue...the way i see things right now, this might help larger w-space corps/alliances and hurt the smaller ones


I am confused, why would a small corp need an alt on every wh in the chain? If they are at the wh they can bm it and have the warp in? If there is another corp in the alliance they can scan it or fleet up and warp to person who does have the Bm? Or share BM with making copies?



Well..sharing bookmarks would work if they would update in time and not 5 minutes later
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#563 - 2015-06-12 09:38:30 UTC
When BALEX as a corp roams (10-15 ppl) max we always have min 5 alts in the fleet, be it links, or probers/scouts. We move around lowsec trough WH a lot. When we move around we always use scout warp ins, so where is the problem?

Name one situation where scouts can't handle it.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
Sasha Sen
Hull Zero Two
#564 - 2015-06-12 09:38:56 UTC
Ok sounds like your tight knit group will be ok then, you might even have a chance if you do run in to one of those Ishtar mob fleets and catch a few stragglers who didn't have the proper bm.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#565 - 2015-06-12 09:42:07 UTC
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
When BALEX as a corp roams (10-15 ppl) max we always have min 5 alts in the fleet, be it links, or probers/scouts. We move around lowsec trough WH a lot. When we move around we always use scout warp ins, so where is the problem?

Name one situation where scouts can't handle it.

Tackling a nullbear before they leave their site.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Sasha Sen
Hull Zero Two
#566 - 2015-06-12 09:44:13 UTC
Thea Yulivee wrote:
Sasha Sen wrote:
Thea Yulivee wrote:



the ignorance..wow

whilst i agree with the changes in general, just the simple fact that smaller corps in WH Space can't have alt-scouts at every WH in the chain they are using, makes me wonder if CCP really thought this through. For bigger corps this won't change to much in the way of handling their day to day routine, but when it comes to small corps or multi-corp fleets this is a major pain

I agree with the statements above, that we need other options to warp to wormholes as a fleet or at least broadcast a bookmark so that every member of the fleet can warp himself. I really hope that the thing Larkin mentioned they are working on, adresses this issue...the way i see things right now, this might help larger w-space corps/alliances and hurt the smaller ones


I am confused, why would a small corp need an alt on every wh in the chain? If they are at the wh they can bm it and have the warp in? If there is another corp in the alliance they can scan it or fleet up and warp to person who does have the Bm? Or share BM with making copies?



Well..sharing bookmarks would work if they would update in time and not 5 minutes later


And you need less then 5 minutes because....... ?

..... oh wait you found a target, you are quickly forming a fleet to pounce and so you are in a hurry, ok I get it. Then send in a scout with a cloak to get a warp in.


Sasha Sen
Hull Zero Two
#567 - 2015-06-12 09:45:32 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
When BALEX as a corp roams (10-15 ppl) max we always have min 5 alts in the fleet, be it links, or probers/scouts. We move around lowsec trough WH a lot. When we move around we always use scout warp ins, so where is the problem?

Name one situation where scouts can't handle it.

Tackling a nullbear before they leave their site.



Fleet warps work to anoms.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#568 - 2015-06-12 09:47:25 UTC
Sasha Sen wrote:
Zappity wrote:
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
When BALEX as a corp roams (10-15 ppl) max we always have min 5 alts in the fleet, be it links, or probers/scouts. We move around lowsec trough WH a lot. When we move around we always use scout warp ins, so where is the problem?

Name one situation where scouts can't handle it.

Tackling a nullbear before they leave their site.



Fleet warps work to anoms.

Fine. Tackling a nullbear before they leave their signature.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Sasha Sen
Hull Zero Two
#569 - 2015-06-12 09:48:06 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Sasha Sen wrote:
Zappity wrote:
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
When BALEX as a corp roams (10-15 ppl) max we always have min 5 alts in the fleet, be it links, or probers/scouts. We move around lowsec trough WH a lot. When we move around we always use scout warp ins, so where is the problem?

Name one situation where scouts can't handle it.

Tackling a nullbear before they leave their site.



Fleet warps work to anoms.

Fine. Tackling a nullbear before they leave their signature.


warp gates..... do you eve?
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#570 - 2015-06-12 09:50:12 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
When BALEX as a corp roams (10-15 ppl) max we always have min 5 alts in the fleet, be it links, or probers/scouts. We move around lowsec trough WH a lot. When we move around we always use scout warp ins, so where is the problem?

Name one situation where scouts can't handle it.

Tackling a nullbear before they leave their site.



Moving a fleet through a wormhole chain in a cohesive manner WITHOUT needing to put a scout on EVERY bookmark first.

Tell me why delaying movement like this is good gameplay addition...when the ******* "problem" is (allegedly) bombers.
Dwaigon Aumer
Hostile.
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#571 - 2015-06-12 09:50:33 UTC
I normally don't involve in changes, but i'll make an exception for this one.

This:
Caldari 5 wrote:
This change hurts small gang, more than it does large gang/fleet, mostly due to the number of bodies available to try and get warp ins with.

When you only have a fleet of 10 or so guys having 3 or more guys trying to get warp-ins is large percentage of your potential DPS doing nothing. Yet if you have a fleet of 50 or more guys, having 4 or more guys trying to get warp-ins it is much less of an issue.


Also it hurts explorer hunters, now they actually have to use their alt for combat and exposing themselfs. If you have to probe, warp at 10km, then warp your main on top the chances that the target is gone is way to much.

Possible solutions are:

  1. Allow squad warp to probes, bookmarks etc.
  2. When fleet warping, make every member confirm it (when a member confirms, he starts to warp).

Minmatar FTW!!
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#572 - 2015-06-12 09:54:00 UTC
Sasha Sen wrote:
Zappity wrote:
Sasha Sen wrote:
Zappity wrote:
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
When BALEX as a corp roams (10-15 ppl) max we always have min 5 alts in the fleet, be it links, or probers/scouts. We move around lowsec trough WH a lot. When we move around we always use scout warp ins, so where is the problem?

Name one situation where scouts can't handle it.

Tackling a nullbear before they leave their site.



Fleet warps work to anoms.

Fine. Tackling a nullbear before they leave their signature.


warp gates..... do you eve?

wat

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#573 - 2015-06-12 09:54:59 UTC
Dwaigon Aumer wrote:
I normally don't involve in changes, but i'll make an exception for this one.

This:
Caldari 5 wrote:
This change hurts small gang, more than it does large gang/fleet, mostly due to the number of bodies available to try and get warp ins with.

When you only have a fleet of 10 or so guys having 3 or more guys trying to get warp-ins is large percentage of your potential DPS doing nothing. Yet if you have a fleet of 50 or more guys, having 4 or more guys trying to get warp-ins it is much less of an issue.


Also it hurts explorer hunters, now they actually have to use their alt for combat and exposing themselfs. If you have to probe, warp at 10km, then warp your main on top the chances that the target is gone is way to much.

Possible solutions are:

  1. Allow squad warp to probes, bookmarks etc.
  2. When fleet warping, make every member confirm it (when a member confirms, he starts to warp).

Yeah, I tend to agree. This will hurt smaller groups much more than blobs. Allowing this at squad level would be much better I think.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Sasha Sen
Hull Zero Two
#574 - 2015-06-12 09:56:32 UTC
Zappity wrote:

wat


Wait what sites are you talking about? Relics? You need a fleet to catch a cov ops?
Valkin Mordirc
#575 - 2015-06-12 09:59:18 UTC
Well Amarr is completely filled with Scanner Probes in Protest.... Probtest.. HA.


Anyways.

http://gyazo.com/29f6373b25b4f8de2210c4c7734ed8d0 

#DeleteTheWeak
Bertral
Les chevaliers de l'ordre
Goonswarm Federation
#576 - 2015-06-12 09:59:48 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:

The goal of these changes is to encourage more individual fleet member participation [...]


So the change to make would be the opposite : allow fleet warp only on unknown locations (boomarks, probed ships) and disallow fleet warps when fleet members can just warp themselves.

You are nerfing interesting gameplay (repositioning) while still allowing the "autopilot" part of fleet warping.

In the o7 show, CCP Fozzie (I think) compared the these changes with the drone assist nerf. (It is no longer possible to have 200 drone boats controlled by one trigger.) However, these fleet warp changes would be like allowing the 200 ishtars to assist a proteus, but disallowing drone assist for small gangs (you would need to have at lest 50 drones assisted to one ship for the trigger to work).

I just don't see why you consider autopiloting interesting, and why you consider combat probing an issue.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#577 - 2015-06-12 10:00:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
Sasha Sen wrote:
Zappity wrote:

wat


Wait what sites are you talking about? Relics? You need a fleet to catch a cov ops?

Combat signatures and escalations. http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Cosmic_Signatures#Combat_Sites You already need to be lucky to catch them because all they have to do is warp out when they see combat probes.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#578 - 2015-06-12 10:00:49 UTC
Sasha Sen wrote:
Zappity wrote:
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
When BALEX as a corp roams (10-15 ppl) max we always have min 5 alts in the fleet, be it links, or probers/scouts. We move around lowsec trough WH a lot. When we move around we always use scout warp ins, so where is the problem?

Name one situation where scouts can't handle it.

Tackling a nullbear before they leave their site.



Fleet warps work to anoms.


You cant tackle it with a prober and be a warp in for rest of the fleet?

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#579 - 2015-06-12 10:04:34 UTC
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
Sasha Sen wrote:
Zappity wrote:
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
When BALEX as a corp roams (10-15 ppl) max we always have min 5 alts in the fleet, be it links, or probers/scouts. We move around lowsec trough WH a lot. When we move around we always use scout warp ins, so where is the problem?

Name one situation where scouts can't handle it.

Tackling a nullbear before they leave their site.



Fleet warps work to anoms.


You cant tackle it with a prober and be a warp in for rest of the fleet?

Yeah, this is the alternative. Care to suggest any fits for probing bonused ships that would survive even 20 seconds of drone DPS? You need an expanded launcher.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Sasha Sen
Hull Zero Two
#580 - 2015-06-12 10:05:18 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Sasha Sen wrote:
Zappity wrote:

wat


Wait what sites are you talking about? Relics? You need a fleet to catch a cov ops?

Combat signatures and escalations. http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Cosmic_Signatures#Combat_Sites


If I remember correctly 99% of combat sites have a warp gate, in null sec what you can catch now with fleet warp you will be able to catch with a solo tackle as well. Who waits around in a site when local spikes?

Escalations I have no clue about, I think those have no warp gates but you would have to use combat probes, and if they don't get out of the place while there is a person in local and combats pop out even for 15 seconds, then you will catch again with or without fleet warps.

The only valid argument so far for this change being bad is the off grid booster that needs near perfect scanner to find.