Player Features and Ideas Discussion

RIP wh pvp, RIP Bombers, RIP Providence. Thank you CCP for another great game change.
Unsubs incoming.

p.s. When you will make an improvement to this game ill will re-subs my accounts.

News flash to CCP: real people who play the game are the most precious asset in this game.

Your changes, however, make the game increasingly tedious and obnoxious to play, which drives away the real people.

There is no FC on the cluster who would rather have another alt in fleet than a real person. I already delegate every possible task to my corp mates that I possibly can - the ones I keep for myself are the ones that I cannot delegate to someone who only has one account and will have no fun filling that role.

Come up with some truly rewarding roles for people in fleets. As it is, you keep multiplying the number of thankless roles that are best done on an alt - because your business strategy seems to be to squeeze as much out of the existing humans as possible.

At the same time, you consistently nerf the ability for one player to control multiple ships doing the same task (a way of reducing the tedium of running the same stale sites, anomalies, and missions over and over again).

Small gang FC's already rely heavily on bookmarks and probers. It is already hard enough to nail down some elite PVP nano/kite fleet with off-grid boosters. Now you are making it even harder to get a decent warp-in on top of them and their OGB. You are making it harder to avoid their drag bubbles as they run away because they couldn't get any kills against your counter fleet.

You are encouraging players to rely more and more on individual bookmarks. Don't those create some issues for the hamsters? When every player in the alliance needs to have all the pings on every celestial bookmarked at all times, so they can warp themselves to the right point and avoid a drag bubble as they run from a larger gang, that's going to add up.

Additionally, in place of warping a gang to bookmarks, I'll be fleet warping them at range to a cloaked alt. It will just be more tedious. I'm perfectly happy to ask a new player to be the +1 or +2 scout. They get some experience and fun out of it (unless space is totally empty, as it all too often seems to be). Asking him to warp to his bookmark 200 off the gate, so I can warp the fleet to him is not a rewarding role for anyone. I'm not maintaining multiple accounts so I can have another alt sitting off the gate where I know I will need a ping - I maintain multiple accounts so I can get through the grind part of Eve faster and get back to leading small groups in search of content.

In the past I described Eve as "white-knuckled, trembling hands, exciting." I'd literally sweat during a fight. Now the words I would use are "tedious, a chore, like a second job." The only reason I still play or stay at all engaged with Eve is because I feel I owe it to my friends to keep logging in and participating. My masochism is steadily wearing thin. Playing Eve should not be an unpleasant or boring experience, yet that is what you have been doing over the course of the past year. I accepted jump fatigue because it promised good things - it was bitter medicine that might save Eve. Now we have fatigue, entosis, and this nonsense.

You have a very narrow idea of what is fun in Eve - not everyone enjoys your pseudo-solo/small gang elitist PVP mentality. Most people just want to log in and have fun playing Eve with their friends. Make Eve easy to play - not another chore. The challenge should come from the other players, not from the interface or silly restrictions.

Might as well re-post it here, this is how I see it negatively affecting Wormholes becuase there is NO POSITIVE side for wormholes with this change, absolutely zilch.

The three biggest issues I see with this change which are a day to day thing. Most of these apply to groups who run with more than just 1 corporation.

1.
If you have multiple corps either from being in an alliance or on a joint op, when your going down the chain, especially if its a long chain currently you fleet warp or provide a warp in to the WH, fleet warping is preferred since you don''t have to worry about the character ahead getting caught and this while annoying I could get used to just continually warping to someone to get the chain I haven't bookmarked, it will just require more scouts all the time.

2.
If your warping into a hostile fleet, this is the worst part of the change in my opinion. Currently we can fleet warp either directly into the hostile fleet or at a tactical spot and then warp down to engage them, this relies on just the fleet commander having the bookmark because often if your running in an alliance or with multiple groups then not everyone is going to have the bookmark because you bookmark so much **** in wormholes (CCP please try living out of WH's for once). After the change this is going to resort in either getting a scout at the position which if its tactical is no problem but if your warping directly to the WH no scout is going to put himself 2km away from the entire hostile fleet and their bubblers. So we'll have to resort to WAITING for the bookmarks to propogate, thank you CCP for FORCING us to wait even longer now for any chance to have some decent PvP.

3. When your going to kill some site runners, when I kill site runners who are on their own I either warp to my scout alt or fleet warp using my scout out (obviously with warp with fleet turned off) to the enemy at zero either by bookmark I made or with probes. Having to warp to my scout alt means I have to get my scout alt dangerously close, and because of the changes you CCP have made to Wormholes almost everyone scans with Covops not T3's because of frigate holes and the importance to scan quickly given how easy it is to spot new holes. If your going to kill an escalation fleet (which is actually hard if the site runners put an ounce of effort into defending themselves), then a usual thing to do is for the bubblers to be switched to a squad where the commander is the scout, scout then fleet warps the bubblers to the hostile fleet either through probes or a bookmark, and given how hard it can be (and time consuming) for a scout to manually pilot close to the enemy fleet (which is very dangerous because of the all the objects in sites) and the amount of time it consumes, giving the hostiles more time to extract once they IMMEDIATELY spot the new sig appearing. You are just making site running even safer, which is not something we want!

I see where this is coming from, you want to reduce reliance on one guy driving a whole fleet of F1 jockeys about and I can understand and support that.

It does however impact those of us who use probes to catch mission runners in lowsec as now it will take longer to get on top of him and increase his chances of getting off grid in time. There are a lot less of us though so I suppose we will have to live with it.

You mean you have to interact with other people in the MMO ? Erk.

Bullshit, how does it make EvE more dangerous and deadly? Why would there be more killmails? If anything, this makes it harder for one group of ships to get on top of another (group of) ship(s). In fact, this is stated as a desired effect of these changes. Now, why would there be more explosions? More strugglers will be caught and picked off, but that's about it.

Hey there is a fix for bombers. Reduce bomb damage by ~80% and make them apply equally across all ship classes / signatures ... you know, like smartbombs do.

You're welcome :)

I am a rookie ,the eve is so hard to play,
I am a Java Developer,I wanna know what do you think to make the game so hard, It is not funny.

This is a very bad change for wormhole space. I will try to eplain:

Let's say we just found a new wormhole in our homesystem (we either rolled, or we got a random connection w/e). We send out scouts and soon scouts are splitting up as the connections and chains expand.

This image is a fairly common scenario, let's say a scout from corp A is scanning subchain-1 and a scout from corp B is scanning subchain-2. So, all members of corp A have bookmarks for subchain-1 and all corp members from corp B have them for subchain-2 (assuming both scouts use corp bookmarks ofc).

Now, the scout from corp B jumps in to the next wormhole, hit's his dscan and see's npc wrecks and some ships. Our fleet, from members of both corp A and corp B forms up in the home system while the scouts pinpoints their location. Speed is important here, any wrong move, or take to long and they might get scared and move away before we can get there.

The scout finds them and the fleet begins to move. Corp B members have bookmarks, but corp A members to not (remember it was a corp B scout that did the scanning, the corp A scout is scanning a different part). So, you put a corp B member in squad/wing and warp the fleet to all the holes. Corp A makes bookmarks along the way. If we wouldn't be able to do those fleet warps, that means someone from corp B must warp to the next wormhole, land, before corp A members can warp to the next wormhole. This more then doubles the response time of our fleet. By the time we get there, our targets will most likely be long gone.

The only way I can think of to solve that, would be to distribute the bookmarks from corp B to corp A while the fleet is forming up. However, it can take anywhere from 5 to 10 minutes before all bookmarks are propagated for all corp members. By that time, the targets will be long gone as well.

Unless we either get alliance bookmarks, or bookmark propagating becomes instant, this change is ver, very bad for wormholespace.

I hope that made sense...

So I woke up and apparently didnt dream this trainwreck.

"get a scout on grid"

Brilliant, and how are they going to keep up with a manuevering fleet when cloaked? Or do you think they'll last 5 seconds on grid, alone.


Also, different warp speeds of ships makes this an absolutely stupid idea, unless you ALWAYS AND FOREVER warp to an alt.


Net effect:

Bomber inconvenience (the closest I can find to a "justification" for this)

Complete pain in the arse for rest of eve. Slows everything down and/or needs sacrificial lambs to be added to a fleet.



Seriously, for once can you just fix what was broken instead of burning down the whole house to solve a spider in the bathtub? Just once.


And the notion this helps small gang is preposterous - by their very nature they are short on warm bodies and alts are used to make up for this shortfall.

I'm stunned, genuinely stunned at this move. So much collateral damage for a problem with so very many more ways to fix.


I'd have a hell of a lot more time for it if it was presented "here is the problem, here is why a,b,c,d,e...x,y,z wouldn't work to resolve this so we are stuck with this fix for now. We're sorry about the impact to other elements but there is no other way". As it is, it's just....I don't even have words for how backwards this is.

This is the kind of reaction to a post I've exclusively reserved for bad PLAYER ideas before.

/dismayed.