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[AEGIS] Fleet Warp Changes - Please see devblog!

First post First post First post
Author
Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#461 - 2015-06-12 06:47:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Tara Read
Querns wrote:
Tara Read wrote:

Oh this is just too cute. If this is the fruits of the CSM's labour which is nothing but self posturing and positioning to bend CCP's ear then I have no interest. Period.

It's less that and more "having a group of confederates who will vote for you in excess of the amount of votes garnered by the disenfranchised masses of Eve."

If you don't like the way this works, I strongly encourage you to actually vote next time, as I said before. Otherwise, you lose your purchase towards complaining about it. The CSM does not warp to your whims because you refuse to put forth even a token amount of effort towards changing it.


Token of effort? My dear friend and ignorant bloated bee you've gotten too fat on the sweet honey of complacency! If you'd only gone back a few years ago to the proposed gate mechanic changes and sentry proposals to low sec youd see ive been quite active and vocal in the past which resulted in those changes not happening.

It doesn't take a CSM vote to make things in New Eden change. Certainly not if it's just the same group of ankle biting pompous self indulged personalities that grace the likes of reddit and failheap. But hey. Typical mindset of the ignorant. If you don't vote for a candidate that doesn't hold your best interests in mind you have no right to complain.

Cute.
Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#462 - 2015-06-12 06:49:12 UTC
Querns wrote:
Tara Read wrote:

You are the one constantly coming back and trying to twist a Tolkien like description of the meaning meta to say you don't like bombing runs. It's utterly hilarious.

Nah. I just think that with bombers castrated, the major detriments to fielding shield tanked ships are gone. In the current era of Ishtars and Tengus, it's a breath of fresh air.


So you want to fly an Ishtar. God I pity you so so much.
Cypr3ss Deteis
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
#463 - 2015-06-12 06:50:04 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:

The goal of these changes is to encourage more individual fleet member participation and reduce the speed at which fleets can get on top of targets (e.g bombers).


Maybe you're forgetting how things work here in Eve... but as a gentle reminder this is what is going to happen when you implement this change:


  1. FC brings another alt (cov-ops most likely) that he warps (cloaked) to the:

    • Probe Results
    • Bookmarks
    • Any private deadspace item (missions, etc.)


  2. FC fleet warps squad to this alt, fleet F1s whatever is on grid with them.



It will in not, in any way, encourage more individual fleet member participation.

It will slow things down, so I guess 1 out of 2 ain't bad heh?

Really hope you reconsider this change.

Regards,
Cypr3ss.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#464 - 2015-06-12 06:50:20 UTC
Tara Read wrote:
Querns wrote:
Tara Read wrote:

Oh this is just too cute. If this is the fruits of the CSM's labour which is nothing but self posturing and positioning to bend CCP's ear then I have no interest. Period.

It's less that and more "having a group of confederates who will vote for you in excess of the amount of votes garnered by the disenfranchised masses of Eve."

If you don't like the way this works, I strongly encourage you to actually vote next time, as I said before. Otherwise, you lose your purchase towards complaining about it. The CSM does not warp to your whims because you refuse to put forth even a token amount of effort towards changing it.


Token of effort? My dear friend and ignorant bloated bee you've gotten too fat on the sweet honey of complacency! If you'd only gone back a few years ago to the posed gate mechanic changes and sentry proposals to low sec youd see ive been quite active and vocal in the past which resulted in those changes not happening.

It doesn't take a CSM vote to make things in New Eden change. Certainly not if it's just the same group of ankle biting pompous self indulged personalities that grace the likes of reddit and failheap. But hey. Typical mindset of the ignorant. If you don't vote for a candidate that doesn't hold your best interests in mind you have no right to complain.

Cute.

If it doesn't take a CSM vote to make things in New Eden change, then why complain in the first place?

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#465 - 2015-06-12 06:51:18 UTC
Tara Read wrote:
Querns wrote:
Tara Read wrote:

You are the one constantly coming back and trying to twist a Tolkien like description of the meaning meta to say you don't like bombing runs. It's utterly hilarious.

Nah. I just think that with bombers castrated, the major detriments to fielding shield tanked ships are gone. In the current era of Ishtars and Tengus, it's a breath of fresh air.


So you want to fly an Ishtar. God I pity you so so much.

This is pretty far afield of anything I was actually talking about.

Also, I can fly an ishtar quite competently -- thanks for asking!

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Kendarr
The Congregation
RAPID HEAVY ROPERS
#466 - 2015-06-12 06:52:41 UTC
Cypr3ss Deteis wrote:


Really hope you reconsider this change.

Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#467 - 2015-06-12 06:54:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Tara Read
Querns wrote:
Tara Read wrote:
Querns wrote:
Tara Read wrote:

Oh this is just too cute. If this is the fruits of the CSM's labour which is nothing but self posturing and positioning to bend CCP's ear then I have no interest. Period.

It's less that and more "having a group of confederates who will vote for you in excess of the amount of votes garnered by the disenfranchised masses of Eve."

If you don't like the way this works, I strongly encourage you to actually vote next time, as I said before. Otherwise, you lose your purchase towards complaining about it. The CSM does not warp to your whims because you refuse to put forth even a token amount of effort towards changing it.


Token of effort? My dear friend and ignorant bloated bee you've gotten too fat on the sweet honey of complacency! If you'd only gone back a few years ago to the posed gate mechanic changes and sentry proposals to low sec youd see ive been quite active and vocal in the past which resulted in those changes not happening.

It doesn't take a CSM vote to make things in New Eden change. Certainly not if it's just the same group of ankle biting pompous self indulged personalities that grace the likes of reddit and failheap. But hey. Typical mindset of the ignorant. If you don't vote for a candidate that doesn't hold your best interests in mind you have no right to complain.

Cute.

If it doesn't take a CSM vote to make things in New Eden change, then why complain in the first place?


Because it's under the cheating of Bob and devs that the CSM was formed in the first place. A check and balance system. Now it's as selfish and twisted as anything else in Eve. Sure there's a handful of members who generally care. But there's those few sweet charitable personalities who are only in it for the agenda of their groups they ally with.

Not to hold CCP in check but to bend CCP to the changes THEY want. Case in point. These changes are clearly a vieled nerf to bombers and is just another account for someone to need to run.
Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#468 - 2015-06-12 06:56:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Tara Read
Querns wrote:
Tara Read wrote:
Querns wrote:
Tara Read wrote:

You are the one constantly coming back and trying to twist a Tolkien like description of the meaning meta to say you don't like bombing runs. It's utterly hilarious.

Nah. I just think that with bombers castrated, the major detriments to fielding shield tanked ships are gone. In the current era of Ishtars and Tengus, it's a breath of fresh air.


So you want to fly an Ishtar. God I pity you so so much.

This is pretty far afield of anything I was actually talking about.

Also, I can fly an ishtar quite competently -- thanks for asking!


You complain about adapting and "skill", insult my skill as an Eve player, yet boast about flying an ishtar well. I think I wet myself just now laughing.
Ryno Caval
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#469 - 2015-06-12 06:56:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Ryno Caval
I dunno about all this I'm just gonna roll with the punches on this one
Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#470 - 2015-06-12 06:57:34 UTC
Ryno Caval wrote:
So obviously my previous post was poking fun at everyone complaining. This is just going to be one of those things where everyone is gonna complain, its going to happen anyways. So rather than complain about it start practicing not relying on fleet warps. I mean it is really not an elegant solution or all that complicated. Most of the complaints I hear are totally fixable by just adapting. It'll be nice to actually have use for tactics and in fleets for everyone to be accountable for their own movements to strategic locations. I see a lot of stragglers or overly cocky players being killed in fire and not being able to blame the FC anymore. Yeah it's going to suck losing perches and other fun strategies that are incorporated now but I think this will allow for some interesting gameplay changes. I don't know if will be good, I don't know if it will be bad. All I know is all you can do is adapt and have fun with it. I honestly am excited to see what new methods of fighting people will have. Who knows maybe the days of endlessly cat and mouse PVP will end and there will be some actual brawling for a change. As far as the WH issues here is an idea if you scan something down pay attention to the star map tell your fleet to go to the nearest celestial and they will be on grid much faster same thing goes for bookmarks and other things like that. Maybe you take a couple of hits but if you are scanning SIGs in a WH you should have enough tank to last at least a few seconds and your fleet should have LOGI. As far as the insta-dock, if you are in a capital in a system you undocked in (cynos should always be lit at the insta-dock), you don't know to have an insta-dock, and you don't self warp you are a moron. Lastly, they learning curve may be steep but that is why there are different types of space, the game doesn't start you out in null-sec in a corporation that is part of an alliance that is part of a coalition that expects you to know what you are doing and have experience. You start in Empire space for a reason. There is a buffer between experienced players and new players obviously at times that buffer is broken and the new players learn rough lessons. The fun of EVE is learning the ins and outs and adapting to the changing dynamic.


Good god man its called a paragraph.
Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Fraternity.
#471 - 2015-06-12 06:58:14 UTC
Tara Read wrote:
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Budrick3 wrote:


Poor attempt at saving face.

Rule of all holes, stop digging when you are in one.

Your embarrassing your alliance, the people that put faith in voting for you, and most of all, your embarrassing yourself.


Does this mean I am not gonna win a popularity contest ? Aww shucks im gutted really.


Weren't you elected to instill positive changes for a majority of the Eve Community? Or am I just being fickle thinking the CSM is supposed to do that.... I mean honestly. Didn't you guys take into consideration the myriad of problems this creates for people? Even if the intentions were good, the execution is utterly terrible. I mean really terrible.

Can't you guys come up with something better than this? I mean besides terrible icons and super skins for only half the titans at 35 USD a pop....



I mean we can suggest things and give feedback however at the end of the day its CCP who decides what goes in and what doesn't. With that said I wanted to see combat probing and bombers nerfed. This change accomplishes both. Is it exact optimum ? Thats subjective I have gotten lots of positive feedback and likes for my post in regards to the subject. However as normal it is usually those that are dissatisfied with a issue that are usually most vocal. Unfortunately with constraints of NDA sometimes its hard for CSM to explain positions clearly. Perhaps you don't feel this is a positive change but others do. I can remember a vocal portion of the community unhappy when the AOE doomsday was removed or when Jump Fatigue was added. I have to say I feel for CCP it is nigh impossible to please everyone all at the same time.

@EveManny

https://twitter.com/EveManny

Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#472 - 2015-06-12 07:00:17 UTC
Tara Read wrote:
Because it's under the cheating of Bob and deva that the CSM was formed in the first place. A check and balance system. Now it's as selfish and twisted as anything else in Eve. Sure there's a handful of members who generally care. But there's those few sweet charitable personalities who are only in it for the agenda of their groups they ally with.

Not to hold CCP in check but to bend CCP to the changes THEY want. Case in point. These changes are clearly a vieled nerf to bombers and is just another account for someone to need to run.

As an aside, I love the utter helplessness betrayed by this post. The ability to influence the CSM's composition is in the hands of every individual, yet you are pre-abandoning the idea completely in lieu of posting tinfoil-coated nonsense. I'd find it sad if it wasn't so hilarious.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#473 - 2015-06-12 07:01:12 UTC
If we want to take this to its core, I don't actually understand how this is hard on bombers. They have all the time they want or need. Most bombing targets are near a warpable point and everytime I've been in a cloaky fleet all closing in warps were manual anyway.
Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#474 - 2015-06-12 07:03:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tara Read
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Tara Read wrote:
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Budrick3 wrote:


Poor attempt at saving face.

Rule of all holes, stop digging when you are in one.

Your embarrassing your alliance, the people that put faith in voting for you, and most of all, your embarrassing yourself.


Does this mean I am not gonna win a popularity contest ? Aww shucks im gutted really.


Weren't you elected to instill positive changes for a majority of the Eve Community? Or am I just being fickle thinking the CSM is supposed to do that.... I mean honestly. Didn't you guys take into consideration the myriad of problems this creates for people? Even if the intentions were good, the execution is utterly terrible. I mean really terrible.

Can't you guys come up with something better than this? I mean besides terrible icons and super skins for only half the titans at 35 USD a pop....



I mean we can suggest things and give feedback however at the end of the day its CCP who decides what goes in and what doesn't. With that said I wanted to see combat probing and bombers nerfed. This change accomplishes both. Is it exact optimum ? Thats subjective I have gotten lots of positive feedback and likes for my post in regards to the subject. However as normal it is usually those that are dissatisfied with a issue that are usually most vocal. Unfortunately with constraints of NDA sometimes its hard for CSM to explain positions clearly. Perhaps you don't feel this is a positive change but others do. I can remember a vocal portion of the community unhappy when the AOE doomsday was removed or when Jump Fatigue was added. I have to say I feel for CCP it is nigh impossible to please everyone all at the same time.


Phoebe was a necessity mainly due to the power projection your group had as a Super dominant force as well as others. But I digress. These changes are like cutting off ones foot to deal with trimming toe nails. Why not just deal with bombers directly? Why make the rest of us suffer with these changes? These are utterly rediculous in means and context.

All you are doing is placing more weight upon FC's and making people create more alts for nothing of benefit. I suggest you go to CCP and scrap this whole ordeal. If you want to nerf bombers deal with the platform directly. Not break an unbroken mechanic that already suffers from grid and placement issues.
Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#475 - 2015-06-12 07:04:44 UTC
Querns wrote:
Tara Read wrote:
Because it's under the cheating of Bob and deva that the CSM was formed in the first place. A check and balance system. Now it's as selfish and twisted as anything else in Eve. Sure there's a handful of members who generally care. But there's those few sweet charitable personalities who are only in it for the agenda of their groups they ally with.

Not to hold CCP in check but to bend CCP to the changes THEY want. Case in point. These changes are clearly a vieled nerf to bombers and is just another account for someone to need to run.

As an aside, I love the utter helplessness betrayed by this post. The ability to influence the CSM's composition is in the hands of every individual, yet you are pre-abandoning the idea completely in lieu of posting tinfoil-coated nonsense. I'd find it sad if it wasn't so hilarious.


You know jet fuel can't melt steel beams right?
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#476 - 2015-06-12 07:05:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Querns
Tara Read wrote:
Querns wrote:
Tara Read wrote:
Querns wrote:
Tara Read wrote:

You are the one constantly coming back and trying to twist a Tolkien like description of the meaning meta to say you don't like bombing runs. It's utterly hilarious.

Nah. I just think that with bombers castrated, the major detriments to fielding shield tanked ships are gone. In the current era of Ishtars and Tengus, it's a breath of fresh air.


So you want to fly an Ishtar. God I pity you so so much.

This is pretty far afield of anything I was actually talking about.

Also, I can fly an ishtar quite competently -- thanks for asking!


You complain about adapting and "skill", insult my skill as an Eve player, yet boast about flying an ishtar well. I think I wet myself just now laughing.

Again, quite outside anything I was talking about, but, fine, I'll indulge the tangent a bit.

I've never actually undocked in an ishtar! Check my killboard if you don't believe me. For whatever dumb reason, I happen to have Gallente Cruiser, Heavy Assault Ships, and Sentry Drone Operation all at rank five, so if I was so inclined, I feel like I'd operate the ship quite well. Haven't had a reason to do so, however -- Goonswarm Federation, in general, doesn't fly them outside of SIGs.

e: In PVP, anyways -- ishtars are very common PVE ships in Deklein.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Miner Hottie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#477 - 2015-06-12 07:05:42 UTC
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Tara Read wrote:
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Budrick3 wrote:


Poor attempt at saving face.

Rule of all holes, stop digging when you are in one.

Your embarrassing your alliance, the people that put faith in voting for you, and most of all, your embarrassing yourself.


Does this mean I am not gonna win a popularity contest ? Aww shucks im gutted really.


Weren't you elected to instill positive changes for a majority of the Eve Community? Or am I just being fickle thinking the CSM is supposed to do that.... I mean honestly. Didn't you guys take into consideration the myriad of problems this creates for people? Even if the intentions were good, the execution is utterly terrible. I mean really terrible.

Can't you guys come up with something better than this? I mean besides terrible icons and super skins for only half the titans at 35 USD a pop....



I mean we can suggest things and give feedback however at the end of the day its CCP who decides what goes in and what doesn't. With that said I wanted to see combat probing and bombers nerfed. This change accomplishes both. Is it exact optimum ? Thats subjective I have gotten lots of positive feedback and likes for my post in regards to the subject. However as normal it is usually those that are dissatisfied with a issue that are usually most vocal. Unfortunately with constraints of NDA sometimes its hard for CSM to explain positions clearly. Perhaps you don't feel this is a positive change but others do. I can remember a vocal portion of the community unhappy when the AOE doomsday was removed or when Jump Fatigue was added. I have to say I feel for CCP it is nigh impossible to please everyone all at the same time.


Only in eve is it the working logic that if X and Y things are a problem then nerfing the **** out of related item 1 is the solution. What's that? No the consequences to items 2, 3, 4 & 5 are totally intended despite the gamebreaking nature of their loss.

Might I suggest CSM rep if the problem is bombers and combat probes that you adovacte they be fixed and not a normal functiom like fleet warps.

It's all about how hot my mining lasers get.

Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#478 - 2015-06-12 07:08:05 UTC
Miner Hottie wrote:

Might I suggest CSM rep if the problem is bombers and combat probes that you adovacte they be fixed and not a normal functiom like fleet warps.

I suppose it never crossed your mind that the intent of restricting fleet warps was multi-faceted in nature. The bomber nerf is only one part. (It does, however, happen to be my favorite part!)

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Fraternity.
#479 - 2015-06-12 07:09:07 UTC
Tara Read wrote:
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Tara Read wrote:
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Budrick3 wrote:


Poor attempt at saving face.

Rule of all holes, stop digging when you are in one.

Your embarrassing your alliance, the people that put faith in voting for you, and most of all, your embarrassing yourself.


Does this mean I am not gonna win a popularity contest ? Aww shucks im gutted really.


Weren't you elected to instill positive changes for a majority of the Eve Community? Or am I just being fickle thinking the CSM is supposed to do that.... I mean honestly. Didn't you guys take into consideration the myriad of problems this creates for people? Even if the intentions were good, the execution is utterly terrible. I mean really terrible.

Can't you guys come up with something better than this? I mean besides terrible icons and super skins for only half the titans at 35 USD a pop....



I mean we can suggest things and give feedback however at the end of the day its CCP who decides what goes in and what doesn't. With that said I wanted to see combat probing and bombers nerfed. This change accomplishes both. Is it exact optimum ? Thats subjective I have gotten lots of positive feedback and likes for my post in regards to the subject. However as normal it is usually those that are dissatisfied with a issue that are usually most vocal. Unfortunately with constraints of NDA sometimes its hard for CSM to explain positions clearly. Perhaps you don't feel this is a positive change but others do. I can remember a vocal portion of the community unhappy when the AOE doomsday was removed or when Jump Fatigue was added. I have to say I feel for CCP it is nigh impossible to please everyone all at the same time.


Phoebe was a necessity mainly due to the power projection your group had as a Super dominant force as well as others. But I digress. These changes are like cutting off ones foot to deal with trimming toe nails. Why not just deal with bombers directly? Why make the rest of us suffer with these changes? These are utterly rediculous in means and context.

All you are doing is placing more weight upon FC's and making people create more alts for nothing of benefit. I suggest you go to CCP and scrap this whole ordeal. If you want to nerf bombers deal with the platform directly. Not break an unbroken mechanic that already suffers from grid and placement issues.



I am a FC I feel no extra weight from this change and if I did. I get volunteers from fleet to help me.

@EveManny

https://twitter.com/EveManny

Jindo Lee
EVE University
Ivy League
#480 - 2015-06-12 07:11:34 UTC
knobber Jobbler wrote:
Please give the small/micro gang elite pvp jerks their arena to go fight in and stop buggering up strategic fleet warfare.

Literally two posts later...

Forlorn Wongraven (ATXI winner, 3rd place ATXII) wrote:
Thanks, looking forward to this change.