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[AEGIS] Fleet Warp Changes - Please see devblog!

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Rei Amani
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#321 - 2015-06-12 03:34:21 UTC
horrible idea

this will just make PvP even more unenjoyable
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#322 - 2015-06-12 03:37:01 UTC
Aebe Amraen wrote:
Rowells wrote:
So, what happens if i warp to a corp bookmark, but i have alliance members also in my warp? Does warp not work for everyone or do they sit there wondering where everyone went?


You can't warp to bookmarks at all. Doesn't matter if it's a corp bookmark and everyone in fleet is in the same corp.

hm. Geuss it was someone else's post I read.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#323 - 2015-06-12 03:37:12 UTC
Long Muppet wrote:
Manfred Sideous wrote:

To put this into context drone assign was largely removed as we know it. CCP said that they think it is bad when other people play the game for you.


This is a great point Manny! Maybe, just like with drone assign we should allow squad commanders to fleet warp their 10 people. This ensures you are still taking a nerfbat to the ridiculously huge nullsec fleets while not simultaneously killing small gangs.

I get that having a scout in a large fleet isn't a big deal as they generally have many of them, but requiring a small gang to now dedicate one of their pilots as scout is unnecessary and ruins game play. Finding a middle ground (just as we did we drone assign) is the best option.


I totally support this - having squad leader mean something is a good thing.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#324 - 2015-06-12 03:38:22 UTC
This change hurts small gang, more than it does large gang/fleet, mostly due to the number of bodies available to try and get warp ins with.

When you only have a fleet of 10 or so guys having 3 or more guys trying to get warp-ins is large percentage of your potential DPS doing nothing. Yet if you have a fleet of 50 or more guys, having 4 or more guys trying to get warp-ins it is much less of an issue.
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#325 - 2015-06-12 03:38:28 UTC
Luft Reich wrote:
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Luft Reich wrote:
I see our wormhole CSM is valiantly defending the life style of people in wormhole space....Roll

Yeah, it might be good for nullsec but have you really thought about the effects on wormhole space? Clearly not.


Warping yourself or warping to Wwwww's in fleet Zomgz life is over .


Dearest nullsec CSM,

I have jumped through a wormhole and there are krabs (carebears) running sites. To find these krabs running sites launch combat probes and tell Sabres to jump, I then punt them to these krabs whether it be capitals or otherwise, to get initial tackle because krabs get very scared by the new signiture they see, or if they are just in the chain, the combat probes.

With the proposed changes I must combat probe them down, warp on grid, hope I don't get decloacked by a random object, sleeper, or player and then have the fleet warp in. And all the while krabs see the signiture and are able to scuttle away.

"You are so dumb luft we are just nerfing power projection in wh space" as Ccp has said. Well let us look at what they mean by that. Basically that means that krabs will be safer because that is who we as a community are projecting on. And two, that only large groups such as LZHX, HK, QEX, etc are doing this ganking and if you are attempting to slow them down from ganking carebears to keep wormhole space dangerous than that defeats the whole purpose of wormhole space.

Also beyond killing krabs there is warping a fleet to a hole with various classes of ships, triage, guardians, T3s, etc.

But I don't expect you to understand the magnitude of these changes to wormhole space life style, but I sure hope the two "wormhole csm" do.

Excuse typos its 4:20 am (lol) and I wrote this on my phone.


1) Any changes that makes ganks require more skill (than 0 it requires now) are good.
2) Manfred is not a null CSM, he's a blue donut CSM.
3) wormhole has no CSM, the only wormhole CSM you had has defected to blue donut.

You know it really shows who you are when people are concerned about content quality and you just cry "mah free krabs are getting away!".
Long Muppet
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#326 - 2015-06-12 03:38:28 UTC
Luft Reich wrote:

Darn you Muppet and your reasoning!


I knew you'd go all Deadliest Catch (tm) on us, so I figured no need for me to to beat a dead krab.
Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Fraternity.
#327 - 2015-06-12 03:38:59 UTC
Vala Ancalagon wrote:
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Lyra Gerie wrote:
I like this change as much as I hate it. I love the idea of individuals being more responsible, but it KILLS quality of living at the same time. Unfortunately the two are fairly closely linked.

This issue goes double in wormholes where bookmarks are used almost more often for logistics than killing or fleet fights.

Perhaps a new deployable anchors and or anchor probes?

An anchor probe would show up on D-scan when launched at a 100% signal before showing on grid. They would have a warp of 4.5 AU/s and EHP around 10-25k depending on meta level and balance. After landing on grid it would auto deploy over 5-15 seconds again based on meta level and balance.

The attackers can now still warp to a target however it gives the target fair warning and time to destroy the probe before the scouts fleet can warp in.

As for deployable anchors they would stay in space for a certain amount of time or require some kind of fuel to stay anchored. There could be those that are short term used in single battles, or long term/more global anchors.



So the guy in the wormhole warps to the bookmark and WWWWWW's up. Then everyone gets fleet warped OMG THE TRAVESTY THAT THOSE EXTRA FEW SECONDS WILL CREATE. THINK OF ALL THE BELLY LENT YOU COULD HAVE PICKED IN THOSE FEW PRECIOUS SECONDS. DAMN YOU CCP DAMN YOU!!!!!!!111ON1E


This is the type of mature representation the CSM provides. Really, there are plenty of well-reasoned arguments against this change, and a few decent alternatives that would achieve the "stated goals" of this. There is no need to mock opposing views even if you don't agree with them.



Calm down , forgive me for having a little fun. The CSM are players who volunteer our time out of love for the game. I am not professional and will not be professional or political. I give feedback and suggest things to improve eve thats it. I was takin the **** because a large portion of the replies to this change are people going batshit crazy over having to warp themselves in just a few instances. I was poking fun at it. Fun in a video game discussion CRAZY I KNOW!

@EveManny

https://twitter.com/EveManny
Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#328 - 2015-06-12 03:40:07 UTC
Question. So let's say my alt is a mission puller and I want to squad warp the combat toon to the mission at the same time. With these changes will we need to wait for the actual toon with the mission to land in the site before manually warping the combat character?

You said peronal as in dead space items etc. Just want some clarification.
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#329 - 2015-06-12 03:40:47 UTC
I'll echo the sentiment that having Squad-level warps available would be a positive middle-ground. I could accept that change.

For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Fraternity.
#330 - 2015-06-12 03:41:08 UTC
Orca Platypus wrote:
Luft Reich wrote:
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Luft Reich wrote:
I see our wormhole CSM is valiantly defending the life style of people in wormhole space....Roll

Yeah, it might be good for nullsec but have you really thought about the effects on wormhole space? Clearly not.


Warping yourself or warping to Wwwww's in fleet Zomgz life is over .


Dearest nullsec CSM,

I have jumped through a wormhole and there are krabs (carebears) running sites. To find these krabs running sites launch combat probes and tell Sabres to jump, I then punt them to these krabs whether it be capitals or otherwise, to get initial tackle because krabs get very scared by the new signiture they see, or if they are just in the chain, the combat probes.

With the proposed changes I must combat probe them down, warp on grid, hope I don't get decloacked by a random object, sleeper, or player and then have the fleet warp in. And all the while krabs see the signiture and are able to scuttle away.

"You are so dumb luft we are just nerfing power projection in wh space" as Ccp has said. Well let us look at what they mean by that. Basically that means that krabs will be safer because that is who we as a community are projecting on. And two, that only large groups such as LZHX, HK, QEX, etc are doing this ganking and if you are attempting to slow them down from ganking carebears to keep wormhole space dangerous than that defeats the whole purpose of wormhole space.

Also beyond killing krabs there is warping a fleet to a hole with various classes of ships, triage, guardians, T3s, etc.

But I don't expect you to understand the magnitude of these changes to wormhole space life style, but I sure hope the two "wormhole csm" do.

Excuse typos its 4:20 am (lol) and I wrote this on my phone.


1) Any changes that makes ganks require more skill (than 0 it requires now) are good.
2) Manfred is not a null CSM, he's a blue donut CSM.
3) wormhole has no CSM, the only wormhole CSM you had has defected to blue donut.

You know it really shows who you are when people are concerned about content quality and you just cry "mah free krabs are getting away!".



I hate blues blues should all die. You don't know me , who I am or what or what I don't support. Check yourself.

@EveManny

https://twitter.com/EveManny
Kazami Gouda
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#331 - 2015-06-12 03:41:31 UTC
players still have autonomy in fleets even if they dont warp them selves in fleet fights. Fleet warping is just a mechanic that FC's need to position people as quickly and efficiently as possible

-1

bad idea
Davis TetrisKing
The Vendunari
End of Life
#332 - 2015-06-12 03:42:50 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
How about providing a way to launch beacons that become visible on the overview to any bookmark you have. You could let them be destructible, maybe set who they become visible to off grid in a similar fashion as assigning contracts (everyone, specific Corp, specific person, etc.)



Interesting idea. Would be nice in a covops to go somewhere, drop a beacon and move on to the next thing. It would allow you to drop temporary warp to spots around a system, temp warp ins and safes etc that the fleet can use without having to have another character just to sit at that spot. Spose they'd have to be destructible, but it makes me think of a mini cyno.
Melody Madeveda
Doomheim
#333 - 2015-06-12 03:43:57 UTC
Heh hope solo and small gang pvpers like flying in d3...
Vala Ancalagon
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#334 - 2015-06-12 03:45:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Vala Ancalagon
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Vala Ancalagon wrote:
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Lyra Gerie wrote:
I like this change as much as I hate it. I love the idea of individuals being more responsible, but it KILLS quality of living at the same time. Unfortunately the two are fairly closely linked.

This issue goes double in wormholes where bookmarks are used almost more often for logistics than killing or fleet fights.

Perhaps a new deployable anchors and or anchor probes?

An anchor probe would show up on D-scan when launched at a 100% signal before showing on grid. They would have a warp of 4.5 AU/s and EHP around 10-25k depending on meta level and balance. After landing on grid it would auto deploy over 5-15 seconds again based on meta level and balance.

The attackers can now still warp to a target however it gives the target fair warning and time to destroy the probe before the scouts fleet can warp in.

As for deployable anchors they would stay in space for a certain amount of time or require some kind of fuel to stay anchored. There could be those that are short term used in single battles, or long term/more global anchors.



So the guy in the wormhole warps to the bookmark and WWWWWW's up. Then everyone gets fleet warped OMG THE TRAVESTY THAT THOSE EXTRA FEW SECONDS WILL CREATE. THINK OF ALL THE BELLY LENT YOU COULD HAVE PICKED IN THOSE FEW PRECIOUS SECONDS. DAMN YOU CCP DAMN YOU!!!!!!!111ON1E


This is the type of mature representation the CSM provides. Really, there are plenty of well-reasoned arguments against this change, and a few decent alternatives that would achieve the "stated goals" of this. There is no need to mock opposing views even if you don't agree with them.



Calm down , forgive me for having a little fun. The CSM are players who volunteer our time out of love for the game. I am not professional and will not be professional or political. I give feedback and suggest things to improve eve thats it. I was takin the **** because a large portion of the replies to this change are people going batshit crazy over having to warp themselves in just a few instances. I was poking fun at it. Fun in a video game discussion CRAZY I KNOW!


I'm not uncalm, I just expect more from the CSM if they are going to represent the interests of players. I wouldn't expect Sugar to write something like you did in a million years, that's the kind of thing I'm talking about. You were elected to a position that affords you being able to travel around the world to meet directly with devs and talk about the game. You should be above posts that approach trolling.
Luft Reich
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#335 - 2015-06-12 03:45:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Luft Reich
Quote:

1) Any changes that makes ganks require more skill (than 0 it requires now) are good.
2) Manfred is not a null CSM, he's a blue donut CSM.
3) wormhole has no CSM, the only wormhole CSM you had has defected to blue donut.

You know it really shows who you are when people are concerned about content quality and you just cry "mah free krabs are getting away!".


Scared Krab uses npc alt. And last time I checked giving a little pinch to krabs is content and I think it's pretty quality.

ISD Cyberdyne liked your forum post
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#336 - 2015-06-12 03:50:16 UTC
Kazami Gouda wrote:
players still have autonomy in fleets even if they dont warp them selves in fleet fights. Fleet warping is just a mechanic that FC's need to position people as quickly and efficiently as possible

-1

bad idea


All a fleet member does these days is anchor on target, lock the broadcast and press F1. They do very little, its the FC who does all of the flying. This is but one step to returning us to what it used to be like when a pilot actually flew their ship in a fight. I hope their next move is to restrict broadcasts for repairs to squad only.
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#337 - 2015-06-12 03:50:28 UTC
Vala Ancalagon wrote:
I'm not uncalm, I just expect more from the CSM if they are going to represent the interests of players. I wouldn't expect Sugar to write something like you did in a millions years, that's the kind of thing I'm talking about. You were elected to a position that affords you being able to travel around the world to meet directly with devs and talk about the game. You should be above posts that approach trolling.

Blue donut CSM represent the interests of blue donut holders, so it really is no surprise...
...that said, I agree with every troll word he spoke. The change is good, and even with the worst look at it, not the end of the world, which you seem to be sure of.
SilentAsTheGrave
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#338 - 2015-06-12 03:51:12 UTC
Sienna Vanjarc wrote:
Don't create boring space jobs (warpin providers), more kiting and don't make it easier just to farm kills (more stragglers, more fail warps).

Encourage brawling and hull trading, make the game more fun for everyone, not just the perfect organized, perfect skilled players.

But I like warping around cloaked sneaking up on people, providing warp ins for my bros and zipping around in a frigate tackling stranglers and dealing with the enemy fleet frigates. It is really fun.

I guess I'm playing the game wrong. Oops
Long Muppet
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#339 - 2015-06-12 03:52:54 UTC
Orca Platypus wrote:

1) Any changes that makes ganks require more skill (than 0 it requires now) are good.


This isn't the least bit true. Ganks require a lot of skill and coordination.

Wormhole site running, done properly, is nearly risk-free. CCP has stated several times they want risk to be involved, even going so far as to suggest the might delay sigs popping up on scanner to add some risk. With the ability to close off all connections, the only way to catch these guys is to roll into them. The moment you do they notice and have the ability to warp off.

The only way to catch them is to have combat probes pre-loaded and a sabre to be "punted" to the site runners. Even when done perfectly site runners are still able to get out before your sabre lands. By adding the need to warp your scout to the site runners, we are adding precious seconds to the process, which (not even exaggerating) will likely decrease their risk further by upwards of 50%.
Cmore Hanaya
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#340 - 2015-06-12 03:53:39 UTC
So if i understand this right. A ship or fleet has twice the amount of time to escape from probes being on scan and also It encourages sniping and kiting fleets and removes brawling fleets