These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Carnyx release - General feedback

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
CCP Surge
C C P
C C P Alliance
#341 - 2015-06-02 19:53:22 UTC
Joia Crenca wrote:


Thanks for responding!

I'm also getting the feeling that it's not just at 90% that it's a problem, and even after some time, the testing folks still were not happy. We were actually given the same response during Incarna, concerning the unusable/unreadable UI icons then.


Hi, let me reclarify a bit here.

The 90% scaling problem is engine-level. Specifically our UI renderer doesn't support any texture filtering or anti-aliasing, which makes any non-100% scale texture look pretty bad across the UI. It's particularly blatant when scaling single-pixel wide strokes as in the new icons.

And unfortunately re-writing the UI renderer, or bolting on some AA tech is just an item that hasn't made it to the top of the engine team's priority list. But we're aware of the issue.

In the end we support "UI scaling" functionality to some extent, but don't have the proper tech in place to make the experience feel great at anything other than 100% at the moment.

I'm also curious to hear more from, and maybe wasn't aware of how many users played with a 90% downscaled UI (as opposed to scaling up for accessibility reasons.) What are your reasons for doing so?
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#342 - 2015-06-02 19:54:01 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
[quote=Ralph King-Griffin][quote=Ralph King-Griffin][quote=Joia Crenca]If there is a culture issue at CCP, perhaps that needs to be addressed? There may be a thought that: 'If the work is finished enough to put on SiSi, then it CAN'T be rolled back, or someone will lose their job for allowing it to go this far'. But that would defeat one main purpose of SiSi, wouldn't it, in having an internal culture issue cancel out player feedback?

(truncated quote)

No, you are quite wrong. They are much worse at 90% we have worked with them for quite a while on sisi, the issue is one of bad legibiliy. I and others no doubt envy your eyesight, and I assure you the stabbing pain behind my eyes after playing for an hour is something I AM NOT WILLING TO GET USED TO.

Read my post again, the issue is only with the 90% scaling.

That aside you should probably see an optician or stop drinking on Monday night's.


I have to ask: Where were you in Incarna? A CCP Patriot, or one of us Jita Statue Shooting Traitors? P (If you're going to get personal... I'll match it)
Lahnius
#343 - 2015-06-02 19:54:59 UTC
Quote:

No, you are quite wrong. They are much worse at 90% but the problem is NOT limited to that. We have worked with them for quite a while on sisi, and it is not a matter of familiarity. the issue is one of bad legibiliy. I and others no doubt envy your eyesight, and I assure you the stabbing pain behind my eyes after playing for an hour tonight is something I AM NOT WILLING TO GET USED TO.

CCP when your design choices start causing physical harm to your customers, isn't it about time you stopped and reevaluated your choices?



i havent even played for an hour with the new icons and my eyes are sore.

the game just feels awkward now, and no this isnt something i could ever get used to ... as much as i really hate to say this, the icons stay and i gotta go ... im not into paying to play a game that causes me physical pain.

thanks but no thanks.
Sissy Fuzz
Sissy Fuzz Communications
#344 - 2015-06-02 19:55:21 UTC
I am sure this is a fine release. But.

The icons?!? Why? Please tell us why, CCP?

Because change is a quality in itself? It is not, I can tell you.

Actully, in my opinion the icons themselves are fine. But they are new and we all now have to learn new icons for no reason whatsoever other than you just couldn't help changing something. Roll
Captain Africa
GRIM MARCH
#345 - 2015-06-02 19:55:28 UTC
Captain Africa wrote:
Holy **** that caracal looks awesome ....as for the rest lemme check. BTW CCP ty for updating this awesome game !!!!


Rely people lol what are you complaining about ...icons are just fine. For the first time you can actually see whats ploting at a first glance. Icons are sweet ....there will always be haters. Lol and they get followed like sheep.
Tomski Ruslav
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#346 - 2015-06-02 19:55:49 UTC
CCP Claymore wrote:


All I can say at the moment is please take some time to get used to the new icons if this is the first time you are seeing them. It has been a while since they last changed, if ever, and it will take a while to learn them again.


Did u guys actually stop to look at how outposts look now? its freaking horrible, to the point that there wouldnt be a need for outposts to actually have any look at all, cause all u see are the rings.

One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#347 - 2015-06-02 19:56:01 UTC
In B4 CCP realizes that all goons were ordered to give two thumbs up for bad icons before making their permanent pilgrimage to h1z1. Grr goons n all.
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#348 - 2015-06-02 19:56:41 UTC
CCP Surge wrote:
Joia Crenca wrote:


Thanks for responding!

I'm also getting the feeling that it's not just at 90% that it's a problem, and even after some time, the testing folks still were not happy. We were actually given the same response during Incarna, concerning the unusable/unreadable UI icons then.


Hi, let me reclarify a bit here.

The 90% scaling problem is engine-level. Specifically our UI renderer doesn't support any texture filtering or anti-aliasing, which makes any non-100% scale texture look pretty bad across the UI. It's particularly blatant when scaling single-pixel wide strokes as in the new icons.

And unfortunately re-writing the UI renderer, or bolting on some AA tech is just an item that hasn't made it to the top of the engine team's priority list. But we're aware of the issue.

In the end we support "UI scaling" functionality to some extent, but don't have the proper tech in place to make the experience feel great at anything other than 100% at the moment.

I'm also curious to hear more from, and maybe wasn't aware of how many users played with a 90% downscaled UI (as opposed to scaling up for accessibility reasons.) What are your reasons for doing so?


Hello CCP Surge!

Some of us appear to be playing on laptop screens, so they may be having to go to 90% to fit everything onto the screen?
Dominous Nolen
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#349 - 2015-06-02 19:59:05 UTC
Joia Crenca wrote:
CCP Surge wrote:
Redacted


Hello CCP Surge!

Some of us appear to be playing on laptop screens, so they may be having to go to 90% to fit everything onto the screen?


Or just smaller desktop displays in general.

@dominousnolen

"Fly dangerously, Fly safe, Fly whatever, just keep Flying." - Lee Blackwood
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#350 - 2015-06-02 19:59:18 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
If EVE online wishes to state prior to purchase that this game is only suitable for people under the age of thirty, then of course they are entitled to limit their playerbase. And of course refund all who can no longer play it.

If however they wish to have players, over thirty who all at some point have a stiffening of the eye muscles, and hardening of the iris/eyeball making their new icons an excercise in eye strain, then they should take account of the opthalmic advice they commissioned.

They did take advice before completely changing the visual aspects of the game? Didn't they?
Laptops? Ah! Didn't think of that!

Oops.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Urduri
Blazing Eagles
#351 - 2015-06-02 20:03:29 UTC
The overview icons are horrible. With the slight astigmatism I have in each eye, I have a difficult time telling just what I'm looking at. Most have turned into fuzzy look-alike shadowy blobs. The previous icons were clear and obvious. *sigh*
Dominous Nolen
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#352 - 2015-06-02 20:05:03 UTC
Urduri wrote:
The overview icons are horrible. With the slight astigmatism I have in each eye, I have a difficult time telling just what I'm looking at. Most have turned into fuzzy look-alike shadowy blobs. The previous icons were clear and obvious. *sigh*

Same boat.. I suffer from a bad astigmatism and sometimes the icons aren't 100% clear

@dominousnolen

"Fly dangerously, Fly safe, Fly whatever, just keep Flying." - Lee Blackwood
Ashlar Maidstone
MoonFyre BattleGroup Holdings
#353 - 2015-06-02 20:05:06 UTC
New icons are very hard to read. Have to second guess those.

Launcher STILL NOT fixed, I done everything I could in that department.

Other than previous posters it's ok for now....SadSadSad
Mael Chalbi
Heavy Waters
#354 - 2015-06-02 20:05:42 UTC
Please please, return the old overview, this horrible, cant deal with this crap or at least give us the option of the old overview
Trajan Unknown
State War Academy
Caldari State
#355 - 2015-06-02 20:06:31 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
If EVE online wishes to state prior to purchase that this game is only suitable for people under the age of thirty, then of course they are entitled to limit their playerbase. And of course refund all who can no longer play it.

If however they wish to have players, over thirty who all at some point have a stiffening of the eye muscles, and hardening of the iris/eyeball making their new icons an excercise in eye strain, then they should take account of the opthalmic advice they commissioned.

They did take advice before completely changing the visual aspects of the game? Didn't they?
Laptops? Ah! Didn't think of that!

Oops.



I am over 30 and I don´t have any problems at all. Your reaction to these icons is something I would worry about at the very least.
Not pointed towards you but when people play EvE on potato machines with bad screens I don´t wonder that there are issues with the icons. Get some proper hardware to not wreck your eyes and game pleasure.
Just as a reference, I am "starring" at a screen for over 10hours a day for more than 17years now and my eye sight is above average. I am using an expensive screen and good lightning so a good screen with good lightning should do the trick if you´re not starring at the screen for more than 3hours a day. Oh and relax your eyes every now and than to not cripple them.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#356 - 2015-06-02 20:07:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
CCP Surge wrote:
Joia Crenca wrote:


Thanks for responding!

I'm also getting the feeling that it's not just at 90% that it's a problem, and even after some time, the testing folks still were not happy. We were actually given the same response during Incarna, concerning the unusable/unreadable UI icons then.


Hi, let me reclarify a bit here.

The 90% scaling problem is engine-level. Specifically our UI renderer doesn't support any texture filtering or anti-aliasing, which makes any non-100% scale texture look pretty bad across the UI. It's particularly blatant when scaling single-pixel wide strokes as in the new icons.

And unfortunately re-writing the UI renderer, or bolting on some AA tech is just an item that hasn't made it to the top of the engine team's priority list. But we're aware of the issue.

In the end we support "UI scaling" functionality to some extent, but don't have the proper tech in place to make the experience feel great at anything other than 100% at the moment.

I'm also curious to hear more from, and maybe wasn't aware of how many users played with a 90% downscaled UI (as opposed to scaling up for accessibility reasons.) What are your reasons for doing so?

Screen real estate is limited, fitting everything whilst keeping a cleanish ui sort of necessitates it.

An example,at 100% scaling I have trouble fitting all that without it overlapping

Edit: derp, my apologies for the poor quality img there,on my phone and iss all I could find

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#357 - 2015-06-02 20:07:27 UTC
Urduri wrote:
The overview icons are horrible. With the slight astigmatism I have in each eye, I have a difficult time telling just what I'm looking at. Most have turned into fuzzy look-alike shadowy blobs. The previous icons were clear and obvious. *sigh*


And because they are moving or swapping position, the eye tracking to try to see the smaller icons is awful! No glasses can account for that, without moving the head!

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Taru Audeles
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#358 - 2015-06-02 20:09:10 UTC
CCP Claymore wrote:
Panterata wrote:
Hey Lebowski, who is responsible for the icons?

Tell him to write something here on the players and not hide as a mouse!


That would be me and my team, Team Game of Drones.

We are reading the feedback you are providing.

All I can say at the moment is please take some time to get used to the new icons if this is the first time you are seeing them. It has been a while since they last changed, if ever, and it will take a while to learn them again.

We are aware that the new icons do not look great with 90% UI Scaling. This is an issue we are looking at but is a bigger project due to the nature of UI Scaling.

We are monitoring your feedback and will try and respond to your issues and concerns.

Thank you for all your feedback so far.



It's not like a million people told you it's a bad idea to sneak them in without any information before the release. This is the best example of what is wrong within CCP.
Your devblog from february has COMPLETLY different icons in the picture. Even in the patch notes you hind it in a wall of text in the UI section.
Just roll it back fix the issues and do a dev blog explain and talk to your players. Let them play with it for some time of singularity and let them watch the pictures.

But to drop it like this without an annoucement/warning and dev blog is just asking for trouble. You ask us to give it time and get used to them. Well we need to get something done until this happens. Roll this BS back and give us the time to get used to them. The game is completly unplayable for "some" people for the next couple of days/weeks.

You guys at CCP have really learned nothing.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#359 - 2015-06-02 20:09:15 UTC
Trajan Unknown wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
If EVE online wishes to state prior to purchase that this game is only suitable for people under the age of thirty, then of course they are entitled to limit their playerbase. And of course refund all who can no longer play it.

If however they wish to have players, over thirty who all at some point have a stiffening of the eye muscles, and hardening of the iris/eyeball making their new icons an excercise in eye strain, then they should take account of the opthalmic advice they commissioned.

They did take advice before completely changing the visual aspects of the game? Didn't they?
Laptops? Ah! Didn't think of that!

Oops.



I am over 30 and I don´t have any problems at all. Your reaction to these icons is something I would worry about at the very least.
Not pointed towards you but when people play EvE on potato machines with bad screens I don´t wonder that there are issues with the icons. Get some proper hardware to not wreck your eyes and game pleasure.
Just as a reference, I am "starring" at a screen for over 10hours a day for more than 17years now and my eye sight is above average. I am using an expensive screen and good lightning so a good screen with good lightning should do the trick if you´re not starring at the screen for more than 3hours a day. Oh and relax your eyes every now and than to not cripple them.



All good advice regarding eye care and reducing eye strain, but it does not solve the problem that the icons are not designed for legibility, especially when moving.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Ryan TheRandomHero Dunn
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#360 - 2015-06-02 20:09:37 UTC
Please reverse the overview icons.