These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

New Sov Changes - Immersion Breaking
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Nom X3
Michael JackUrSon
#1 - 2015-05-29 22:22:16 UTC
Hi,

So i'm 6 months into the game and very new to these forums. I've been absolutely loving this game though, so I took the time to look into the dev blog for the upcoming sov changes. It looks like a great concept, and I get why things are being changed. However, there are a few things that feel very immersion breaking for me. This is concerning to me; as being immersed in a virtual reality of space is important to me when playing this game, and it's what keeps me around even though all my RL friends don't have the patience to play this game with me...

These are a few things I noticed:

I. Vulnerability Timers

I don't like this at all. Structures should be vulnerable at ALL times. I know they implemented this so that smaller alliances could own some space in nullsec without being pushed out by the larger alliances, but it's just too immersion breaking for me...I don't have the perfect answer to make this better, but I do know that this solution just feels far too artificial for me.

One thing I thought of was instead of "Vulnerability Windows" that scale with Activity Defense modifiers. It could be replaced by having strong NPC ships that defend your territory, which scale with Activity Defense Multipliers instead of having a Vulnerability Window at all.

II. Command Nodes

Again, very artificial. Why am I fighting at nodes across a constellation for a structure that is not even located in the system I'm fighting? I understand the point is to spread out pvp so that there is smaller gang action instead of giant Blobs, but again, very immersion breaking for me. I want smaller gang PvP too, but I don't think this is the way to do it... I have no ideas how to make this better, so maybe this really is the best solution. With all the great minds on Eve i imagine that someone has got to have a great idea out there.

Just My 2cents... This will probably will fall on deaf ears though since I'm such a new player, But I just wanted to throw out my personal opinion to anyone that may be listening.

Regards,

n0m_
Paranoid Loyd
#2 - 2015-05-29 22:26:11 UTC
So it's not immersion breaking for you to get your ship blown up, get podded and then magically reappear ready to do it over again? It's a game, for it to be fun it can't be immersive in every way.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
#3 - 2015-05-29 22:32:30 UTC
I guess part of the answer is that more effort should be needed to destroy content that a player has created, than the effort that player took to create it.

Perhaps all that talk about asymmetry concerns that concept.

All I know is that if I built a base in EVE and then have it destroyed while I'm not playing, then I'd never build a base again.

~ ~~ Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox. ~~ ~
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#4 - 2015-05-29 22:39:40 UTC
Nom X3 wrote:
Hi,

So i'm 6 months into the game and very new to these forums. I've been absolutely loving this game though, so I took the time to look into the dev blog for the upcoming sov changes. It looks like a great concept, and I get why things are being changed. However, there are a few things that feel very immersion breaking for me. This is concerning to me; as being immersed in a virtual reality of space is important to me when playing this game, and it's what keeps me around even though all my RL friends don't have the patience to play this game with me...

These are a few things I noticed:

I. Vulnerability Timers

I don't like this at all. Structures should be vulnerable at ALL times. I know they implemented this so that smaller alliances could own some space in nullsec without being pushed out by the larger alliances, but it's just too immersion breaking for me...I don't have the perfect answer to make this better, but I do know that this solution just feels far too artificial for me.

One thing I thought of was instead of "Vulnerability Windows" that scale with Activity Defense modifiers. It could be replaced by having strong NPC ships that defend your territory, which scale with Activity Defense Multipliers instead of having a Vulnerability Window at all.

II. Command Nodes

Again, very artificial. Why am I fighting at nodes across a constellation for a structure that is not even located in the system I'm fighting? I understand the point is to spread out pvp so that there is smaller gang action instead of giant Blobs, but again, very immersion breaking for me. I want smaller gang PvP too, but I don't think this is the way to do it... I have no ideas how to make this better, so maybe this really is the best solution. With all the great minds on Eve i imagine that someone has got to have a great idea out there.

Just My 2cents... This will probably will fall on deaf ears though since I'm such a new player, But I just wanted to throw out my personal opinion to anyone that may be listening.

Regards,

n0m_



The old SOV changes were immersion breaking too, FYI.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#5 - 2015-05-29 22:40:48 UTC
Immersion Breaking.


People keep saying this term. I don't think it means what they think it means.


Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Solstice Punk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2015-05-29 22:45:19 UTC

That's some high class trolling.
Absolutely most will fall for it !


Straight 10/10 !

Looking for friends ? Want to boost your Likes ? Ever wanted to chat with the hottest Lady in New Eden ??

Join LAGL ! Post "Sol said Hi !" and receive ten Million ISK!

They have IRC too!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#7 - 2015-05-29 22:53:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Nom X3 wrote:
So i'm 6 months into the game and very new to these forums.

That would explain why you think these non-additions would break immersion, when the game already has all the things you say you dislike, and has had them since roughly forever because it was proven very early on that not having them broke pretty much everything, including immersion.
Solstice Punk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2015-05-29 22:54:46 UTC

Yay Tippia ! ^_^

Looking for friends ? Want to boost your Likes ? Ever wanted to chat with the hottest Lady in New Eden ??

Join LAGL ! Post "Sol said Hi !" and receive ten Million ISK!

They have IRC too!
Nom X3
Michael JackUrSon
#9 - 2015-05-29 23:04:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Nom X3
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Immersion Breaking.


People keep saying this term. I don't think it means what they think it means.




This is what I meant by immersion breaking...

I. Vulnerability Timers

Why would my structure only be vulnerable at certain times? In a real war, the enemy would strike at your weakest points. Time of day being one of them...

II. Command Nodes

artificial. Why am I fighting at nodes across a constellation to destroy a structure that is not even located in the system I'm fighting?

Quote:


That's some high class trolling.
Absolutely most will fall for it !

Straight 10/10 !



Not my intent at all. This was just my honest opinion. I spent most of today reading all about the details CCP has posted regarding this sov change.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#10 - 2015-05-29 23:24:24 UTC
Nom X3 wrote:
I. Vulnerability Timers

Why would my structure only be vulnerable at certain times? In a real war, the enemy would strike at your weakest points. Time of day being one of them...

Because it would create (and has created) awful gameplay if it such timers didn't exist.

Quote:
II. Command Nodes

artificial. Why am I fighting at nodes across a constellation to destroy a structure that is not even located in the system I'm fighting?

Because it creates (and has created) awful gameplay if such a distribution of targets doesn't exist.

Is your immersion broken right now, when both of those are already in place? If not, what will change when they are still around after the patch? If it is, what will change when they are still around after the patch? More importantly, do you really want the game to have awful gameplay just so your immersion (most likely won't) increase?
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#11 - 2015-05-29 23:33:24 UTC
No, what he wants is something that is both good game play and would make sense to our characters if they and their universe actually existed.

Why do those two have to be mutually exclusive? Why not have both?

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#12 - 2015-05-29 23:38:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Vincent Athena wrote:
No, what he wants is something that is both good game play and would make sense to our characters if they and their universe actually existed.

Why do those two have to be mutually exclusive? Why not have both?

They don't have to be, but they are. It's the experience of having systems that don't have those constraints that has led to our having them.

If you can think of a way to avoid ownership ping-pong and jamming a system to the point of bursting without the use of timers and incentives to spread out, then it would be interesting to hear. So far though, sov has been a constant topic since it was introduced and no workable solutions that have really emerged that fit all requirements.
Solstice Punk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2015-05-29 23:40:37 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Nom X3 wrote:
I. Vulnerability Timers

Why would my structure only be vulnerable at certain times? In a real war, the enemy would strike at your weakest points. Time of day being one of them...

Because it would create (and has created) awful gameplay if it such timers didn't exist.

Quote:
II. Command Nodes

artificial. Why am I fighting at nodes across a constellation to destroy a structure that is not even located in the system I'm fighting?

Because it creates (and has created) awful gameplay if such a distribution of targets doesn't exist.

Is your immersion broken right now, when both of those are already in place? If not, what will change when they are still around after the patch? If it is, what will change when they are still around after the patch? More importantly, do you really want the game to have awful gameplay just so your immersion (most likely won't) increase?


Trivia.

Is he a roleplayer, or a sad escapist ?
(for anyone else: see 'alof' thread)

Looking for friends ? Want to boost your Likes ? Ever wanted to chat with the hottest Lady in New Eden ??

Join LAGL ! Post "Sol said Hi !" and receive ten Million ISK!

They have IRC too!
Nom X3
Michael JackUrSon
#14 - 2015-05-29 23:46:05 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
No, what he wants is something that is both good game play and would make sense to our characters if they and their universe actually existed.

Why do those two have to be mutually exclusive? Why not have both?


This!!
Solstice Punk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2015-05-29 23:52:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Punk
Twisted
Nom X3 wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
No, what he wants is something that is both good game play and would make sense to our characters if they and their universe actually existed.

Why do those two have to be mutually exclusive? Why not have both?


This!!
No.

The real question is: Why do YOU need it any more immersive ?
(I know the answer but let's see what your mind spits out k?)

Looking for friends ? Want to boost your Likes ? Ever wanted to chat with the hottest Lady in New Eden ??

Join LAGL ! Post "Sol said Hi !" and receive ten Million ISK!

They have IRC too!
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
#16 - 2015-05-29 23:52:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Seven Koskanaiken
Nom X3 wrote:
Again, very artificial. Why am I fighting at nodes across a constellation for a structure that is not even located in the system I'm fighting? I understand the point is to spread out pvp so that there is smaller gang action instead of giant Blobs, but again, very immersion breaking for me.


Before the famous B-R there was a battle in HED-GP so bad that I managed to watch 2 James Bond movies before even exiting the warp tunnel.

Although really you are a year late in your objections, in the immediate aftermath any suggestion of spreading objective across systems as a solution was considering "breaking the sandbox!!!!", though apparently now implemented the fanbois are all in support of it, hey ho, I guess the pendulum swings.
Zealous Miner
Doomheim
#17 - 2015-05-29 23:57:25 UTC
All of these Sov changes remind me of the Battle of Endor. Lol

Fedo. Fedo? Fedo!
Wendrika Hydreiga
#18 - 2015-05-30 00:05:25 UTC
The day "immersion breaking" becomes a valid argument for not implenting a change or new system, is the day I eat my hat. Common knowledge that comes from being a roleplayer is knowing our preferences and hobbies will never be catered to.

It gets easier with time, I've been told!
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#19 - 2015-05-30 00:28:10 UTC
Wendrika Hydreiga wrote:
The day "immersion breaking" becomes a valid argument for not implenting a change or new system, is the day I eat my hat. Common knowledge that comes from being a roleplayer is knowing our preferences and hobbies will never be catered to.

It gets easier with time, I've been told!


You couldn't do that. Itll be a valid argument way before we get hats.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Paranoid Loyd
#20 - 2015-05-30 00:28:20 UTC
Wendrika Hydreiga wrote:
The day "immersion breaking" becomes a valid argument for not implenting a change or new system, is the day I eat my hat. Common knowledge that comes from being a roleplayer is knowing our preferences and hobbies will never be catered to.

It gets easier with time, I've been told!

Mmmm, hat

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
12Next page