These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Missions & Complexes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

NOS against Rats question
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Takeya Saito
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1 - 2015-05-24 07:09:41 UTC
Hi guys,

So i decided to fit some NOS to my raven to try and keep my cap up when using a shield booster but i don't seem to be able to get any cap out of rats, i'm pretty sure this used to work, is this just not working anymore? =(
Takeya Saito
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2 - 2015-05-24 08:33:16 UTC
anyone know if this is the case or if i am doing something wrong? =/
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#3 - 2015-05-24 09:39:33 UTC
Not sure but vampires only work if you're capa is lower than the target capacitor, but since the npc have a infinite capa pool that should work all the time, at least for me one heavy works on npc battleships.

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”
Lanark Gray
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2015-05-24 12:46:45 UTC
They do work - but seem to cut off after a while: swap targets, and make them big ones!
Takeya Saito
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#5 - 2015-05-24 12:52:32 UTC
Lanark Gray wrote:
They do work - but seem to cut off after a while: swap targets, and make them big ones!

right, i shall give that a try
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#6 - 2015-05-24 14:42:32 UTC
Yes they do work.
No you do not need to swap targets but it is better to do so.
No you do not need to use a larger ship as a target, frigate and destroyers work just fine if you use multiple targets, one for each NOS.
A BS like the Raven is cap hungry you will likely need at least two T2 large NOS for any real affect to show up in game.

I have a Golem fit that uses NOS and I can take it from 3:00 cap to stable at 23% by using two large and 1 medium NOS all of them T2.
Takeya Saito
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#7 - 2015-05-24 19:44:06 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Yes they do work.
No you do not need to swap targets but it is better to do so.
No you do not need to use a larger ship as a target, frigate and destroyers work just fine if you use multiple targets, one for each NOS.
A BS like the Raven is cap hungry you will likely need at least two T2 large NOS for any real affect to show up in game.

I have a Golem fit that uses NOS and I can take it from 3:00 cap to stable at 23% by using two large and 1 medium NOS all of them T2.

oh so larger ships don't affect it? that is good to hear, I was using 2 large ones but i don't have skills for a T2 yet, all i am trying to do is get a Raven ready for level 4s =P i normally fly a paladin so i have no idea about ship tanked ships at all =S
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#8 - 2015-05-24 20:34:00 UTC
The named NOS's, Rayseres and Selynnes (spelling) will reach out to 36km. It comes in handy some times.

I used to have them on my CNR, before the ship could fit 8 launchers.
The only high slot module that can actually help you survive.
nahjustwarpin
SUPER DUPER SPACE TRUCKS
#9 - 2015-05-25 03:21:17 UTC
Kiddoomer wrote:
Not sure but vampires only work if you're capa is lower than the target capacitor, but since the npc have a infinite capa pool that should work all the time, at least for me one heavy works on npc battleships.


in every topic about NOS on NPC there's someone claiming that NPCs have infinite cap, yet crawling through chukers database proves otherwise
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2015-05-25 03:43:21 UTC
Takeya Saito wrote:
Hi guys,

So i decided to fit some NOS to my raven to try and keep my cap up when using a shield booster but i don't seem to be able to get any cap out of rats, i'm pretty sure this used to work, is this just not working anymore? =(

Not LMJD fit?

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Amanda Chan
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2015-05-25 07:47:54 UTC
Caleidascope wrote:
Takeya Saito wrote:
Hi guys,

So i decided to fit some NOS to my raven to try and keep my cap up when using a shield booster but i don't seem to be able to get any cap out of rats, i'm pretty sure this used to work, is this just not working anymore? =(

Not LMJD fit?


Lmjd fits are good only for going paper tank for max spank. They still slow down mission completion times, especially if your tank relies on it.(after all, worlds collide room 2 and 3 on a mjd tanked ship? You'll need it off cooldown)
Takeya Saito
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#12 - 2015-05-25 12:33:11 UTC
Amanda Chan wrote:
Caleidascope wrote:
Takeya Saito wrote:
Hi guys,

So i decided to fit some NOS to my raven to try and keep my cap up when using a shield booster but i don't seem to be able to get any cap out of rats, i'm pretty sure this used to work, is this just not working anymore? =(

Not LMJD fit?


Lmjd fits are good only for going paper tank for max spank. They still slow down mission completion times, especially if your tank relies on it.(after all, worlds collide room 2 and 3 on a mjd tanked ship? You'll need it off cooldown)




in that case what would be a good fit for a navy issue raven for l4s? =P
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2015-05-25 14:24:05 UTC
Amanda Chan wrote:
Caleidascope wrote:
Takeya Saito wrote:
Hi guys,

So i decided to fit some NOS to my raven to try and keep my cap up when using a shield booster but i don't seem to be able to get any cap out of rats, i'm pretty sure this used to work, is this just not working anymore? =(

Not LMJD fit?


Lmjd fits are good only for going paper tank for max spank. They still slow down mission completion times, especially if your tank relies on it.(after all, worlds collide room 2 and 3 on a mjd tanked ship? You'll need it off cooldown)

I do fine in WC room 2 and 3 in my lmjd ravens.

Room 3 is actually very easy, warp in, lmjd jump, kill everything.

Room 2 has more rats so it just takes a little longer and you have to jump away from rats, if you don't have tactical overlay On, you might jump in the wrong direction. ☺

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2015-05-25 14:25:13 UTC
Takeya Saito wrote:
Amanda Chan wrote:
Caleidascope wrote:
Takeya Saito wrote:
Hi guys,

So i decided to fit some NOS to my raven to try and keep my cap up when using a shield booster but i don't seem to be able to get any cap out of rats, i'm pretty sure this used to work, is this just not working anymore? =(

Not LMJD fit?


Lmjd fits are good only for going paper tank for max spank. They still slow down mission completion times, especially if your tank relies on it.(after all, worlds collide room 2 and 3 on a mjd tanked ship? You'll need it off cooldown)




in that case what would be a good fit for a navy issue raven for l4s? =P

Same as regular raven, only more gank. Of course my ravens and navy ravens are lmjd fitted, and your's are not. ☺

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#15 - 2015-05-25 14:42:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Donnachadh
Caleidascope wrote:
Takeya Saito wrote:
Hi guys,

So i decided to fit some NOS to my raven to try and keep my cap up when using a shield booster but i don't seem to be able to get any cap out of rats, i'm pretty sure this used to work, is this just not working anymore? =(

Not LMJD fit?

Some people like to get up close and smack em in the face, MJD fits are worthless for them folks all it does is reduce your tank..

If you want to play the range game with a MJD then a missile ship is a poor choice due to the missiles flight time.
If you want to go long range and MJD fit then the turret ships have a distinct advantage so get one.
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2015-05-25 14:54:52 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Caleidascope wrote:
Takeya Saito wrote:
Hi guys,

So i decided to fit some NOS to my raven to try and keep my cap up when using a shield booster but i don't seem to be able to get any cap out of rats, i'm pretty sure this used to work, is this just not working anymore? =(

Not LMJD fit?

Some people like to get up close and smack em in the face, MJD fits are worthless for them folks all it does is reduce your tank..

If you want to play the range game with a MJD then a missile ship is a poor choice due to the missiles flight time.
If you want to go long range and MJD fit then the turret ships have a distinct advantage so get one.

Torp raven? Really?

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Amanda Chan
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2015-05-25 22:22:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Amanda Chan
Caleidascope wrote:

I do fine in WC room 2 and 3 in my lmjd ravens.

Room 3 is actually very easy, warp in, lmjd jump, kill everything.

Room 2 has more rats so it just takes a little longer and you have to jump away from rats, if you don't have tactical overlay On, you might jump in the wrong direction. ☺


I never said you wouldn't do fine. I said you need to wait for it to be off cooldown. Waiting = time you could have spent pew pewing.

Donnachadh wrote:


If you want to play the range game with a MJD then a missile ship is a poor choice due to the missiles flight time.
If you want to go long range and MJD fit then the turret ships have a distinct advantage so get one.


That's actually the reverse. Missiles long range is fine if you know how to count volleys. Missiles do better at long ranges due to no fall off. How many ships do you know that can do 1k dps near 100 km away with guns? Practically none, because they would all would be in falloff if they are using high damage ammo.

Caveat - Missiles, especially cruise missiles, need target painters to apply well vs cruisers and frigates. Which at long ranges can easily lead to several of them missing thus reducing your damage application.

Turrets have a much easier time tracking at long ranges because the rat is making a beeline towards you so the traversal out the window.

Takeya Saito wrote:

in that case what would be a good fit for a navy issue raven for l4s? =P


There is no one fit rules them all. If you don't want to use MJD you're going to have to fit a more expensive tank. This is why MJD are so popular.

Me, I'm lazy so I omni-tank my raven with after burners. I burn right towards the gate and pew everything along the way. That means I have to spend more on my tank, but I don't need to switch my hardeners for missions.

Others, will go to eve survival or start memorizing what rats they face, and mission specific their tank. Much cheaper but then you have setup time, minimal but it does exist.

Broad generalizations for things you need for a level 4 missioning ship:

The more spank you have, the less tank you need. An old rule of thumb was take 1000 dps and subtract your dps from it. That's how much tank you will need. I don't find that always applies

MJD? 200 dps ish tank, unless it's mission filled with long range rats that will kick your ass still. I.E Gallente Epic Arc Showtime.

No MJD? 400+ dps tank to last around 4 minutes. Some missions like the Assault etc, have multiple waves so you may need longer.

- note if you use a marauder and are in bastion mode, bump that up to around 800+ because sitting still = rats give it to you HARD. You won't always need this tank, so with my marauder's large hold, I'll have a mobile depot and a bunch of extra fittings that I can switch to have a heavier tank when needed. After I kill off all the battleships and the damage has dropped off sharply, I'll reduce my tank and stick in more damage application mods.

"Crapstable" is for newbies/paranoid people. You lose a lot of potential damage and application modules by making yourself cap stable.

My suggestion if you're new or scared of losing your ship. Is brick tank it, and do a few HARD missions with it(blockade, assault, epic arcs, etc). As you get more comfortable, reduce your tank and get more gank slowly until you find a nice medium.


edit: Completely forgot the OP's question. Yes,NOS does work against rats but it's effectiveness is highly based on your capacitor emission skill. Example. A Nos takes 100 cap to activate but drains 100 cap and it's a wash. Each level of capacitor emission moves it 5% in your favor. At level 5, it activates for 100 cap but drains 125 cap. Profit.

I believe, rats have capacitor but aren't affective by capacitor costs or any that i've nos'd have ever lived long enough to stop providing me free juice.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#18 - 2015-05-27 22:19:04 UTC
Takeya Saito wrote:
anyone know if this is the case or if i am doing something wrong? =/


nosing rats is wrong Shocked

but a few things cuz why not.

the "NPCs have infinite cap" line is a poor simplification for the fact that NPCs abilities are independent of their cap levels. If you look at a drone you see they have 1 cap, I imagine NPCs have a bit more, but imo it is a number that pretty much never means anything.

MJDs are situationally useful. sometimes they are good to run away, sometimes they are good to get close and brawl, sometimes they are useful to get to something (like a gate) far away. As a MJD only takes one slot, imo it really doesn't do much to hurt your tank, especially on a ship like the raven which used to have 6 midslots, and only needs 4-5 slots for tank anyways. Most ships can sit on the warp in and be fine, and a MJD is good to have for that situational use as previously mentioned, or as a GTFO button. accidentally trigger an extra wave or two and get pointed by npcs? just MJD to safety. I almost always use a MJD to get into blaster range, there are a few spawns right at 100km where it is perfect.

most of my shield ships have 2x invlun IIs, a cap booster, and a (pretty cheap ~30mil) pith x-l booster . perfectly adequate tank for lv4s with adequate game knowledge and the SP to back it up. with lower SP a 2x primary hardeners 1x secondary hardener a pith x-l booster, and cap booster gives for huge tanks.

there is also the option to buy a pithum booster, C-types are pretty cheap right now. Frees up a ton of fitting and is close to cap stable without any cap mods, and adequate for tanking most lv4s.

and since you asked about CNRs, have my base copypasta fit. With 8x launchers the CNR gets really tight on CPU. switching the MJD for an AB will help a bit, and in general I would prefer an AB fit to a MJD fit. One of the main ways to save on CPU is upgrade to faction BCUs, get a bit of a damage boost and save on cpu at the same time, but at ~85m a pop.
[Raven Navy Issue, T2 Pve]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Co-Processor II

Pith C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Large Micro Jump Drive

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II

Hobgoblin II x5
Bouncer II x3

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2015-05-27 22:40:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Amanda Chan wrote:
Caleidascope wrote:
Takeya Saito wrote:
Hi guys,

So i decided to fit some NOS to my raven to try and keep my cap up when using a shield booster but i don't seem to be able to get any cap out of rats, i'm pretty sure this used to work, is this just not working anymore? =(

Not LMJD fit?


Lmjd fits are good only for going paper tank for max spank. They still slow down mission completion times, especially if your tank relies on it.(after all, worlds collide room 2 and 3 on a mjd tanked ship? You'll need it off cooldown)


20 mins for worlds collide clean out for room 1 2 and 3 bonus room getting ignored i dont think mjd ships slow u down when u know how to use them in most mission

Edit: should mention for those times i used the cnr
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#20 - 2015-05-29 13:05:48 UTC
Caleidascope wrote:
Torp raven? Really?

Who said anything about a torp Raven. I said up in their face,which does not imply a specific weapons system it is a mission running style.

That being said why not a torp fit Raven, yes there would be some PG issues to deal with but they would increase DPS by nearly 25% and for an up in their face brawler that DPS would be great.
12Next page