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Dev Blog: Shake my Citadel

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Dentric Crendraven
Doomheim
#221 - 2015-05-12 20:19:35 UTC
Saisin wrote:


Is there is anything planned regarding capitals being build in low class wormholes, while none can be brought in due to mass limitations? This situation, if allowed to continue unhindered, will transform some of the low-class WHs into fortresses that simply can't be conquered anymore, which is contrary to what Eve stands for.



Building Capitals in low class holes is not a bad thing. and even with current mechanics if you take the time and spend the money you can make a POS that is absolute hell to deal with especially with POS gunners.

The things with wormholes is the lower the class the safer it generally is which makes sense. And smaller groups often time will need capital support to be able to fend off the invasion fleets of the larger entities. The defender should always have a homefield advantage of some kind and it makes sense that this advantage is lessened when you enter the higher class wormholes which are considered much more dangerous.

As far as POSes go you can make fortresses in any hole if you know what you doing. Secondly Having capitals doesn't make you unconquerable. We've killed several capitals in C2's and even C1's. Its knowing how to use the Capital and when to deploy it that make them powerful defensive ships. But they must also be supported. a Single or small group of capitals will die to subcaps as they should. Several people have and will continue to make this mistake and lose their capitals in low class space.

Citadels as they are currently confirmed do not make your system any less conquerable, honestly, they make them possibly more vulnerable.

With how our hole currently is you would need either and insanely large fleet or to keep hole control for the week or two to build the capitals. Otherwise it would just take absolutely forever to evict us. (We determined 6+ hours per POS and we have several POSes outfitted like this.) We have also been in this hole for a very long time and spared no expense on many of the main towers to the point we actually heavily drained the market for a short time on Faction POS mods. Is this difficult? Hell yes. But we aren't even close to the amount of people some like Hard Knocks/LZHX/SSC can regularly field in a fleet. Without capitals we have no hope at all to kick them out of home or prevent them from staging a POS and building capitals.
Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#222 - 2015-05-12 20:21:17 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
...................
The invulnerability link (we need a new name for this, taking suggestions) provides security while you are undocked and mobile around the structure.


'Mooring Tether' or perhaps 'Bowline'?

Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#223 - 2015-05-12 20:23:04 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:


We have been discussing the idea of a module that recruits pirate spawns to defend against people entosis linking your structure, but ultimately how customizable the timezone mechanics are will be the key here.

AI using the defensive modules is a MUST!
Can't stress this enough. Otherwise no-one but a massive Null corp will be able to use any of these structures since it will be vastly too easy to take them. The Vulnerability window is far too massive for any small corp to handle and turns Eve into a job not a game at that point.

Additionally, High Sec stations will need to be locked into Concord rules. Otherwise it's too easy to get billions of isk of OTHER PEOPLES stuff destroyed. It would become the new Awox, join the corp, blow all their stations up with concord after shooting your alt in a newbie ship.
Xendoh
Blank-Space
Northern Coalition.
#224 - 2015-05-12 20:34:21 UTC
With the changes, implementing Citadels, and removing POS's, I have a few concerns..

1. without the POS force field to safe up - how do you intend to provide Supers/ Titans with an "Invulnerability Field" to protect them, or least give them the opportunity to stay protected while moving from one area to another? Seeing they can't currently dock, and there is no answer as of yet to if they will be allowed to dock in the X-Large citadel.

2. With the new implementation of Citadels will ppl still have the ability to light cyno's on the new Citadel's as they do on stations in low/null that can dock? Will there be a predetermined invulnerability area or a similar type of docking radius? How will the work in conjunction with the new Structure mechanics?

3. When does CCP plan on releasing a dev blog about the "State of Super Capitals" within the new system? I think most people who have interests in larger coalitions / alliances are lingering in suspense as to the answer to this question, many ppl already know a bunch of ppl who have "mothballed" their Supers/Titans, unsubbed those accounts and are really in a holding pattern as to the direction CCP are going here. "Bitter Vets" in particular being the longevity and mainstay within eve, which in large part have lot to do with the injection of the new player base with them recruiting from RL. (That's how I got started)

My concern is those "Bitter Vets" that recruited me from RL have since the announcement of the new "Fozzie Sov" have pretty much been afk from EVE and it's not just my EVE environment, You can read articles on any EVE propaganda page about the CFC playing other games, or other well known Coalitions participation numbers dropping.

Ignoring the question doesn't answer it, if anything not answering it makes ppl draw conclusions that hurt the EVE community as a whole.
Lurifax
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#225 - 2015-05-12 20:37:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Lurifax
Why do you want the XL Citadel if you still need to go capture the nodes 2-3 times? It still only takes one time were the intosis modil manages to hit the station or does takes 2-3 times with entosis links and nodes ?

why put all does guns on the station and how will the guns work in freeport mode.
Katabrok First
Apukaray Security
#226 - 2015-05-12 20:45:18 UTC
What about agents in our citadels? Maybe we could contract them from a corporation with which we have good standings?
Bronden Neopatus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#227 - 2015-05-12 20:57:37 UTC
CCP Logibro wrote:
It's time for some more Structure talk with Team Game of Drones. This time, they're talking about the Citadel class structures, how they will work, and the ways in which it will be able to reach out and say "Hi!" to someone before blowing them up. If this catches your interest, then you should read the blog from the keyboard of CCP Ytterbium.


So we can't walk in them, our assets are not safe in them and they serve no purpose other than fight over them. Why should the Entrepreneurs, Traditional and Social players bother with them, then?

What are you doing for those players, CCP? Take their money and hand all the new toys to Professional and Agressor players?

She strutted into my office wearing a dress that clung to her like Saran Wrap to a sloppily butchered pork knuckle, bone and sinew jutting and lurching asymmetrically beneath its folds, the tightness exaggerating the granularity of the suet and causing what little palatable meat there was to sweat, its transparency the thief of imagination.
Tarus Echerie
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#228 - 2015-05-12 20:58:20 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
I can anchor them just for me personally (not corp, alliance), correct?



Yes we plan on allowing personal anchoring but you must be a player corporation, not NPC (so you can be wardecced).



So, you have to be in a player corp to deploy the structure, but does this prevent NPC chars from using the structures?

ex. What if you have new people on a Trial (not join corp but just fly with us a few days) with your corp/alliance; could they interact with corp/alliance structures? Will it require some standings mechanic? Would you have to allow "freeport" access?
kyoukoku
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#229 - 2015-05-12 21:00:23 UTC
Small request, the image links on the dev blog only go to lowish res images. Any chance this was a mistake & we could see them in higher res please? ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
Mister Ripley
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#230 - 2015-05-12 21:21:16 UTC
Damn barbarians!
Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#231 - 2015-05-12 21:26:21 UTC
Sounds cool as usual

Questions:
- Citadel models are the plans for multiple per size category or just the one?
- If so will they be faction specific or just random and if random do we get to pick?
- Will they have the SKIN options too?
- The weapons, do they need to be manned to operate?
- Will all the different mods have hard points? I'd love to see a little hanger bay hard point for the drones to use
- Any thoughts on rough costing for the different sizes or is it a bit early?
Fzhal
#232 - 2015-05-12 21:32:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Fzhal
Lurifax wrote:
Why do you want the XL Citadel if you still need to go capture the nodes 2-3 times? It still only takes one time were the intosis modil manages to hit the station or does takes 2-3 times with entosis links and nodes ?

why put all does guns on the station and how will the guns work in freeport mode.


He has a point. At first I was going to refute him, but it seems that the problem goes a bit deeper.

Why put guns on something that is taken without the combat mechanics (for the most part)?
Ships with Entosis links can't receive remote reps or help of any kind. That means that automated defenses (if implemented) can't be powerful enough to take out one ship (perhaps of any size) unless that ship is stationary. But even if someone has to pilot the structure's guns, the attackers needs to be able to survive 2 Entosis cycles because they can't be repaired or warp away. Otherwise all you'd have to do is man your POS during Vulnerability times and know you're safe unless the attackers want to waste a ton of ships and time while you safely pick them off from your POS. It sounds like there is a strange balance situation where structure offenses, manned or not, have to be balanced so that they cannot destroy ships too quickly. That is, unless the attackers are expected to have overwhelming numbers.

Please, correct me if I'm wrong! I want guns on my POSs!
Mellianah
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#233 - 2015-05-12 21:36:20 UTC
Lore Question, mostly for giggles:

I read somewhere recently, that Titans in planetary-orbit were large enough to affect the tides of planets with seas...

Whether that's 'true' or not, these new structures utterly dwarf Titans. So...

If someone anchors one or two of these things at a highsec planet, can we look forward to stories of tsunamis wiping out entire populations? ;)
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#234 - 2015-05-12 21:36:57 UTC
Since you dev's are head strong on destroying every structure

will you provide insurance rates for them?
Aaril
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#235 - 2015-05-12 21:37:47 UTC
Are all current structures (other than the "smalls") going away? This is pertaining to both current POSs and Outposts. I do understand there is supposed to be a phase out period.

I know more details will be released about this, but now that we know a little of the function and form of the Citadels, I want to talk about protecting assets when a station is destroyed. To that end, please do the personal container "ejection" philosophy through something like the journal. At least from a roleplay standpoint that makes sense (station going down in flames, spew all the personal items randomly throughout the system with personal security attached to each container). Everyone who has assets in the Citadel should be able to warp to a container that has all of their personal belongings.
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#236 - 2015-05-12 21:46:18 UTC
Aaril wrote:
Are all current structures (other than the "smalls") going away? This is pertaining to both current POSs and Outposts. I do understand there is supposed to be a phase out period.

I know more details will be released about this, but now that we know a little of the function and form of the Citadels, I want to talk about protecting assets when a station is destroyed. To that end, please do the personal container "ejection" philosophy through something like the journal. At least from a roleplay standpoint that makes sense (station going down in flames, spew all the personal items randomly throughout the system with personal security attached to each container). Everyone who has assets in the Citadel should be able to warp to a container that has all of their personal belongings.



they still have yet to come up with a thought process of how players would get their stuff out of space!

I want you to name something that can haul.. lets say 10 fitted battleships, 20 cruisers, 100 frigates, 1000 modules, 100 billion m3 of minerals .. all in one ship...

the personal container eject into space idea is broken as well, considering if the aggressor blows up the damn station and decides to camp the system with supers and titans and fleets..

how can one get their stuff back? name the ship that can haul all of that.. it surely isn't a jump freighter, and surely isn't a freighter.
Dentia Caecus
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#237 - 2015-05-12 21:54:09 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Aaril wrote:
Are all current structures (other than the "smalls") going away? This is pertaining to both current POSs and Outposts. I do understand there is supposed to be a phase out period.

I know more details will be released about this, but now that we know a little of the function and form of the Citadels, I want to talk about protecting assets when a station is destroyed. To that end, please do the personal container "ejection" philosophy through something like the journal. At least from a roleplay standpoint that makes sense (station going down in flames, spew all the personal items randomly throughout the system with personal security attached to each container). Everyone who has assets in the Citadel should be able to warp to a container that has all of their personal belongings.



they still have yet to come up with a thought process of how players would get their stuff out of space!

I want you to name something that can haul.. lets say 10 fitted battleships, 20 cruisers, 100 frigates, 1000 modules, 100 billion m3 of minerals .. all in one ship...

the personal container eject into space idea is broken as well, considering if the aggressor blows up the damn station and decides to camp the system with supers and titans and fleets..

how can one get their stuff back? name the ship that can haul all of that.. it surely isn't a jump freighter, and surely isn't a freighter.



Agreed. As currently explained, it is a pie in the sky idea/mechanic. Moreover, once someone warps to the container, both it and the ship can be scanned, bubbled and killed. The invading entity gets a wonderful kill and each individual player's "stuff."
Aliventi
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#238 - 2015-05-12 21:54:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Aliventi
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
It's too early to say how NPC stations will be affected. We want those structures to be more efficient than NPC stations though, which either means boosting them or nerfing NPC stations.

I would love to this to greatly affect NPC stations. One of the big issues with NPC space is the distinct lack of customization of the stations and station services. To take NPC 0.0 as an example there are only three station systems in Outer RIng, three station systems in Great Wildlands, and six systems in Stain that have cloning facilities. Unfortunately the lack of stations and services are a big issue with the useage of this space.

This system should allow us as players to build and develops highsec, lowsec and NPC nulsec as we wish. Allow us to build Player-Generated NPC-Administered Citadels in NPC space. have us build and anchor the structures, have them be administered by a chosen NPC group (the anchoring party paid or crowd sourced upkeep costs would be a must), and perform efficiency-wise inversely proportional to the security space they are anchored in (SOV stations have better upgrades than NPC nulsec stations which have better upgrades that lowsec stations which have better upgrades than highsec stations.) From there slowly take away NPC stations as they currently exist and allow us as players to replace them with Player-Generated NPC-Administered Citadels (and other structures to come) of our choosing. The biggest issue is how to deal with the removal of these structures to prevent the space from getting cluttered with Player-Generated NPC-Administered Citadels. I am sure a fine solution can be generated through player input and CCP's design goals.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#239 - 2015-05-12 21:55:24 UTC
Will anchorable bubbles fall under the new structures as small or are those being left untouched?
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#240 - 2015-05-12 22:08:33 UTC
Dentia Caecus wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Aaril wrote:
Are all current structures (other than the "smalls") going away? This is pertaining to both current POSs and Outposts. I do understand there is supposed to be a phase out period.

I know more details will be released about this, but now that we know a little of the function and form of the Citadels, I want to talk about protecting assets when a station is destroyed. To that end, please do the personal container "ejection" philosophy through something like the journal. At least from a roleplay standpoint that makes sense (station going down in flames, spew all the personal items randomly throughout the system with personal security attached to each container). Everyone who has assets in the Citadel should be able to warp to a container that has all of their personal belongings.



they still have yet to come up with a thought process of how players would get their stuff out of space!

I want you to name something that can haul.. lets say 10 fitted battleships, 20 cruisers, 100 frigates, 1000 modules, 100 billion m3 of minerals .. all in one ship...

the personal container eject into space idea is broken as well, considering if the aggressor blows up the damn station and decides to camp the system with supers and titans and fleets..

how can one get their stuff back? name the ship that can haul all of that.. it surely isn't a jump freighter, and surely isn't a freighter.



Agreed. As currently explained, it is a pie in the sky idea/mechanic. Moreover, once someone warps to the container, both it and the ship can be scanned, bubbled and killed. The invading entity gets a wonderful kill and each individual player's "stuff."


which in turn means players will eventually get tired of this draconian HTFU type of game and leave.. I don't see this as gathering new subs but causing even more folks to leave. I don't buy the bullcrap P.R that eve is spiking in players.. just to have a mechanic like that introduced that rips you off.. too bad you had to go away cause your mother died, too bad you have to go away cause you have cancer, to bad you had to defend your country (ccp will say fawk the military bro's you snooze you loose your ****..haha).. just too damn bad you didn't have time to play 23/7 eve online protecting your own time investment.

I hate this entire thought process, its making other games way more appealing then sitting here and giving these folks money.