Player Features and Ideas Discussion

i support this.

but only if warp to 0 will be removed, and have it warp to 15km like in the old days.

JF's would really be screwed then because they could only warp within 15km of a station instead of warping to an instadock after jumping to their 99.9% safe ping. Why make it much more dangerous than my suggestion that would only increase the danger a tiny amount?

Why would you want to make living and trading in lowsec more difficult? Is it not risky enough for you already? For goodness sake, JFs cost 7 billion (with a b) isk. That is more than entire hangars of most lowsec pilots in a single ship.

They are plenty enough exciting already, even flying through highsec. Maybe you should try it some time.

Trying to get through a properly set up bubble camp in a covops frigate is much higher. No interdictors, interceptors, and insta-locking sensor boosted ships in a deep safe in low sec.

Let's see... LowSechNaya sees your cyno char arrive in system and warp to a save. LSH really is good at the game and knows that something is going to cyno. They probe the cyno ship in a matter of seconds and then sit there with a bomber. You cyno your ship in, the bomber decloaks and points the JF while the rest of their buddies come in. Your webber, of course, has been neutralized multiple times as s/he attempted to come to the system. So, even if you do not cyno in because of your webber losses, you already lost several dozens of millions there. And if you decide to be ballsy, you lose billions in addition. Their titan/super kill history speaks for itself to demonstrate what kind of risk you add to this.

I can't fly a JF and have no urge to. Would you mind testing it for me?

Limitations suck, but there are consequences for imposing them on and/or removing them from a game. Always.
What I wonder, and what the original poster wonders, is just: What are the consequences? Seems like a fair question.



Lowsechnaya Sholupen and many other such groups are good at picking off the weak and inflexible. I sometimes wonder if maybe that is for the best.

Security is not a simple thing to maintain. It is harder if the majority of people who might be good at providing it are instead trying to destroy it. It is harder when the few remaining people who are capable of providing security have virtually no incentive to do so. It is harder when the people who need security are hellbent on going it alone, even going to the extreme of denigrating and obsoleting the role of protector.

Needing other players gives rise to all sorts of icky and vulnerable feelings like trust and gratitude and admiration . . . but maybe giving players in capital ships a perfect defense was a bad idea from a gameplay standpoint.

It sounds to me like you should get a jump freighter before you continue your ill-informed nonsense. Plenty of jump freighters die outside of highsec. Search for Freight Club.

Should I believe:


Or should I believe:






Are jump freighters 99.9% risk free ships that you can operate without help or does the fact that a paltry number of them dying in low sec to a group who is specialized at killing them evidence that they are 0.01% dangerous? Hmmm . . .

If JF jumps to low-/nullsec stations really would be so safe, why are there so many kills on zkillboard with Jump Freighters?

To me it simply looks like you never have flown a capital ship before because otherwise you wouldn't compare the "risk" of flying a cloaky ship which costs less than 200 mio isk (incl. fit), a ship which can defend itself and even attack/kill other ships with the risk of flying a sitting duck aka "jump freighter" worth 7 billion, without the possibility to defend itself and slow as hell when it comes to warping, aligning or generally moving in space.
Please also forget the point about webbing. Lighting a cyno in a system attracts much more people than enetering a system through a gate. A cyno is a clear indicator of fun and a nice fat killmail for every pvp player and typically you have visitors at your place within 15 seconds. Also don't forget that you would have to find new cyno spots for every jump and can't reuse existing ones. Nothing is easier to wait with a cloaked camper 5k off your standard spot and then launch a warp disruptor probe. If you don't like probes just put a bubble between the cyno spot and the next station. If the capital tries to bounce off safe spots to avoid the bubble then use scanner probes. A captial can be found with a single probing run, enough time for you to warp to him, not enough time for the sitting duck to get away.
In short: forcing capital pilots to cyno into space would make it very easy to hunt and kill them with little effort. A small warp disruption bubble and a covop fitted for scanning with a single point to pin down the freighter would be enough. What should you fear? The cyno pilot is blocked for 10 minutes or looses his ship while self destructing and the capital pilot cant defend himself.

Making it impossible to dock immediately in LS/NS would kill the economy in these areas, especially the ones which don't have a direct and fast connection to Highsec. Only big allies could afford the required defense backbone to bring in goods with JF while any small group would fail and have to move back to High sec. Black Frog would have to cancel their flights or raise the costs and any free trader currently seeding ls/ns nullsec stations could go back to HS.

Fights for regions would be very easy. You want to evict the Fountain Core pirats? Very easy, just camp the Lowsec NPC stations on the way home and sooner than later they will run out of supplies. Why fighting in Deklein at all? Just check out the stations on the way back to high sec and camp them. Don't attack the enemy directly, just cut off the supply chain.

If you mention BR as replacements then you never had a look at the cargo size of goods. Feel free to tell me how you want to store bigger ships in a BR or how many runs you plan to do. A BR typically has around 8k cargo space, a JF around 300k. If you want to do 38 instead of a single run to bring in goods - well well.

If you come up with Wormhole routes as replacement then feel free to do it for a while. I have done it and can ensure you that after some weeks you just don't want to spend 2-3 hours scanning down a route from Null to Highsec just to bring in a cargo load which fits into an Orca.

So in short: NO and please try it on your own how your proposed change feels. Buy a random carrier, light and jump to a cyno somewhere in a crowded npc ls/nullsec system outside the station range and try to survive for a while.