Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I'm saying null isnt self sufficient.

And the risk manifests in the mining/hauling of the tower fuel for 2-4 large towers for the reactions, plus having to defend the towers supplying the minerals.

If null isn't self sufficient, then no place in New Eden is. There are some shortcomings on low goo depending on region, but that's it.

There are already great safety mechanisms in place in nullsec at around any corner. Pipesystems, gated complexes, bubblebunkers left and right, local chat and homeground advantage. If you want *safe* logistics without a JF, do the PFR stunt and just get a bunch of haulers active everytime your homesystem is two wormhole jumps from highsec. A bit of organization and you can move around 100-200 haulers/transport ships through there. That's a minimum of about 5mil m³, using just one single connection, while risking assets in the process worth peanuts in comparison to a real JF. There are funny and efficient ways to get stuff done, you're just hung up on JF services over time - given they are failproof/riskfree, I can see why you want them to persist.

If a restriction like this would be implemented, I'd guess someone like goons would have figured out a neat trick involving a fast machariel to simply not care about the freighter being 10k off the station.

You see, contrary to popular belief, EVERY null sec alliance and line member would actually like to see this game succeed and grow. Yes, that actually includes goons. If one area of the game suffers, we all suffer. If a player leaves the game, that's one less player for us all to shoot at or make friends with in time.

@Lloyd Roses
Low goo is not what is region dependent, it's the R64s, and to an extent a few R32s will be scarce.
As for the second part of your discussion. Reading the dimwitted ideas on F&I today has already put me in a foul mood so rather than saying something equally stupid like... "please uninstall you delusional p.o.s." I'll say this and hopefully you can grasp it.
-Not every area of logistics in this game can wait for a WH to magically appear and connect you to where you want to go, or even remotely close.
-Some areas of this game actually require the movement of very large quantities of goods, fuel, components, etc
-Trying to convince 100+ players to jump into an indy ship may be all well and good in theory, and while each one that dies isn't going to be worth 7b a pop that is still akin to carrying possibly a billion in assets per player in a ship that can die to a single interceptor.
-Where are these 100s of players coming from? Logistics teams typically are made up of a dozen or more (or less) players who handle everything for an alliance.
-In the case of alliance and corp level logistics, the fewer players involved the smoother it will run. Not to mention, people are dishonest and you may find yourself with missing assets and the like which is never good to open yourself up to on any level.
-Some areas of logistics need to be nearly risk-free. The risks were already taken in obtaining, running, and maintaining operations. There are far more risks in the majority of logistical operations in this game than the rewards for completing it, but it is a necessary evil for other players to have their content and fun.

Such team spirit. Imo nullsec should promote team spirit and trust a lot more.

I'm unaffiliated. I did spend time with null/sov-nul groups though, but that's been pre-phoebe, I doubt the experiences even compare.

Yes this whole thread is a stealth "kill CFC" thread
*Imperium, if you're going to use that ridiculous name, spell it right.



That's rather non-sequitur, and there are serious shortfalls for moon goo. Great Wildlands, which I'll use as an example because I actually have a moon map for it (that didn't come from DOTLAN) lacks Neodymium, Dysprosium, Ceasium and Titanium. We can't make half the metamaterials, can't make Amarr T2 components, T2 ammo (or anything else that uses phenolic composites), or any of the high tier moon goo used in T2 Entosis links and T2 ships.

There's some major holes in nullsec self-sufficience.

Apparently, CCP agrees with you. :-(

I would hope goons too. We all play the game, I would like to assume there is 1 truth, and that is we all love this game and want it to thrive.

And while the number of players who leave due to such a cyno change (and there would be a few), the mass leaves would come about from the price of goods; where only those alliances who are sitting on large amounts of isk can afford anything or already have stockpiles in place to build what we want.

That is, eve's upcoming players are the ones we would lose. The exact ones we should all want to stick around who are not immediately impacted by such a chance.

Fozzie pls

Gud idea.

No way! Do you know how long it takes to be able to fly a JF properly? On an completely unoptimized char: It takes me around 62 days to fly a Proteus/Legion, let's put it at 100 days for some support skills like analyzers, prop mods, tank, cap, and so on. It takes me 230 days to train into an Ark just with the necessary prerequs, Amarr Freighter V (because you need the extra last bit or cargo volume), Jump Drive Calibration V (because you need the range), Jump Freighter IV (V would be best, but IV works because of the fuel reduction) and Jump Fuel Conservation. I have not yet trained any support skills and I also have excluded the necessary 1 Cyno alt account and the necessary Webber account/toon on the cyno, which both add at least another 30 days to the queue. I am by absolutely no means complaining about the length of the skill training for this immensely powerful, useful and necessary ship, but you should have some perspective about what you say. After training for a BR (45 days on that char, including cloaking but no support skills), I have to wait another 100 (to sit in it) to 180 days (to more properly sit in it) days before I can fly the next upgrade. Whereas, you in your Astero (with frigates trained to V) need to wait 20 days to be able to upgrade from the Astero to a more or less working T3.

If you cannot fly proper tools for an activity and shy away from risk, you should not go where you cannot control the risk well. That's the same for hauling and exploration: If you cannot use a JF to bring in big volumes, you do not start it with a freighter and hope for the best. You stick to BR and wormholes to move small goods with easily manageable risk.
Likewise, if you cannot fly a T3 for exploration and don't like the like the risk of unavoidable bubble camps, you do not go to Null sec. Or at least do not enter Null sec through the low/high sec entry choke-you-to-death points and instead use wormholes, stay local and do not explore in busy areas.

That said, the jump range nerf for Jump Freighters will eventually come, once you can live fairly self-sufficient in your own region/constellations or can do proper trade with neighbor constellations. CCP has announced it and it makes sense to use your JF only to quickly and relatively safely to ferry goods around your own region or couple of constellations. I do not see why there's even more need for a JF nerf with this in mind.

Well at the moment it isn't a problem. It would seriously limit which systems I could stock if I didn't use JF.