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[Carnyx] The Jackdaw

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elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#41 - 2015-05-10 04:49:51 UTC  |  Edited by: elitatwo
Weeeeh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111eleven

I see what you did there Big smile and who wouldn't love a 94km missile range destroyer that volley tackle of the field so fast that linked interceptors just don't bother.

I love her!

/me wants to inject the book right now!!!

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Longdrinks
Zero Fun Allowed
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#42 - 2015-05-10 05:46:46 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Weeeeh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111eleven

I see what you did there Big smile and who wouldn't love a 94km missile range destroyer that volley tackle of the field so fast that linked interceptors just don't bother.

I love her!

/me wants to inject the book right now!!!

Thats called a talwar and unlike a talwar this ship cant shoot far and tank at the same time.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2015-05-10 06:45:44 UTC
10 effective launchers? If my math is not broken, a 50% damage role bonus applied to 5 launchers means 7.5 launchers ...

I'm my own NPC alt.
Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#44 - 2015-05-10 07:04:01 UTC
Saerin Korvalu wrote:
The main problem I'm seeing with the ship is the gimped PWG. It's ridiculously low.

Less PWG than a Corax. -_-


That jumps off the page for me as well. It's so low that I'm thinking you're essentially locked into rockets. Looking at things, it makes sense since you're getting a really nice damage bonus and, apparently, the agility of a frigate. Jackdaw is gonna be a brawler, and probably nothing more.

In it's "sharpshooter" mode, which would seem to benefit Light Missiles the most, the powergrid appears incapable of supporting the full 5, plus any kind of tank and tackle. With only 2 lows, you can't put PG on it without sacrificing BCUs.

I'm hoping the PG gets bumped at least a little, but time will tell.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#45 - 2015-05-10 07:33:52 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
10 effective launchers? If my math is not broken, a 50% damage role bonus applied to 5 launchers means 7.5 launchers ...

caldari tactical destroyer 5% rof per level
NearNihil
Jump Drive Appreciation Society
#46 - 2015-05-10 10:28:59 UTC
Does this thing do the same thing as the Golem when switching modes? As in, when you enter/exit bastion with a Golem, all missiles currently in flight will do no damage (not even a damage notification, they just go poof) - will this happen when switching to/from Sharpshooter mode in the Jackdaw?
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#47 - 2015-05-10 11:03:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
Got to admit that as a predominantly solo lowsec player I am getting more and more frustrated by each ship release. Garmur, Orthrus, T3Ds all OP and breaking a lowsec meta that was reasonably healthy. I understand that you want people to be excited about new ships but isn't the meta health also important?

At first glance this looks like a stupidly tanked double web rocket brawler that I'm just not going to be interested in fighting. Just like the Garmur is a ridiculous spec kiter that I am also not interested in fighting. Or the Worm which is just frustrating with those drones. Or the 10mn Svipul.

Maybe I should just jump on the bandwagon and fly FOTM from now on. Or just leave lowsec.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Rosal Milag
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2015-05-10 11:51:14 UTC
Onslaughtor wrote:
... honestly this is very disappointing. With only two lows there is no room for the fun and creative fits that made the other two so much fun, not counting the silliness that was the 10mn version(But we fixed those and we still can have fun fits like LSE svipuls with web and scram). I don't need 6 mids. Personally I would leave most the stats and just swap a mid to a low. 3-5-6 thats well balanced and keeps it in a different space than the other ships it has to compete against in its own missile using category.

If I were to make more changes I would have strived for a different bonus for the missiles, like a 7.5% for rockets and a 5% for lights. But that can be fixed on the weapons themselves. The Propulsion bonus also feels very lackluster to the point where I really don’t see myself using it for much else than insta warping from gate to gate.

*Edit*
Thinking about this more I do agree with people that they would reap facwar as fast as a drifter. But these things don't belong in small complexes and I think most of us can agree that we shouldn't be balancing ships around facwar alone.



Asks for more unique fits, yet wants to strip away unique fitting options.... Two highs will not increase choices, it homogenizes the t3 destroyer class. With 1 utility, you have to make much more meaningful decisions. Probe Launcher? Cloak? Neut? Nos? All correct options depending on your circumstances. Same with dropping a mid for a low. All a low does is give fitting space, damage, and maneuvering. A mid opens up dual prop, ewar, tank, sensor boosters, dual point, etc. A mid slot has so many more uses than a low for a shield ship. You say you want unique fits, yet your changes would remove that potential.

Propulsion mode useless? So, orbiting at 500m, full speed mwd isn't something that you'd want? Especially with a rocket brawler? Please. Propulsion mode will make this ship the hardest t3 destroyer to deal with for large hulls. Additionally, with the quick align, you can bail from a fight gone sour in a heartbeat after shaking a point. Basically, in prop mode, the jackdaw wins any fights based on positioning, forcing the opponent to be perfect with cap use and point range. Which also leads into the two utility highs. Dual Neut brawlers would be able to disengage at their leisure if they can't win in prop mode. You don't have to be aligned, signaling your intentions. Just focus the neuts, flip to prop mod when the point drops and gtfo.
Gustav Mannfred
Summer of Mumuit
Remember Mumuit
#49 - 2015-05-10 13:03:15 UTC
Why is the Jackdaw slower than all cruisers and minmatar Bc's?

I think, increasing the speed to about 220 m/s would be better than 160.

I also propose a 6/5/3 slot layout, that it can fit more damage modules

i'm REALY miss the old stuff. 

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=24183
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#50 - 2015-05-10 14:39:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Lloyd Roses
Thanks a lot for not introducing the lml-AB-RR-jackdaw fleet with 2 utility highs and 6 mids :D

Edit: Sorta 0m AB-RR fit looks gorgeous. 300dps, 20k ehp roughly, cap booster aswell. Even spare PG leftover.
Lura Zara
Worlds Without Boundaries Special Forces
#51 - 2015-05-10 15:23:16 UTC
How are people getting these dps/fitting ideas? I cant find anything for EFT on it.
Uriam Khanid
New Machinarium Corporation
#52 - 2015-05-10 16:10:23 UTC
before you start to criticize, post this:
i am addicted for 10MN T3d. CCP, where my drug?Question
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#53 - 2015-05-10 16:41:32 UTC
Gustav Mannfred wrote:
Why is the Jackdaw slower than all cruisers and minmatar Bc's?

I think, increasing the speed to about 220 m/s would be better than 160.

I also propose a 6/5/3 slot layout, that it can fit more damage modules


160 x 1.25 = 200(m/s) with Navigation V. If you put a nano on you should be at 212m/s (guestimated).

Pweese everyone, the values in the thread are the one without any skills applied to them.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Lidia Caderu
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#54 - 2015-05-10 17:50:11 UTC
Why so slow? lol And only with 2 lows...
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#55 - 2015-05-10 18:10:41 UTC
It gets ten effective launchers and uhh...whos complaining that it cant lml kite frigates? Arent you being a little bit silly right now?
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#56 - 2015-05-10 18:21:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakaari Inkuran
Tipa Riot wrote:
10 effective launchers? If my math is not broken, a 50% damage role bonus applied to 5 launchers means 7.5 launchers ...

Rate of fire bonus
Bob Shaftoes
TURN LEFT
#57 - 2015-05-10 18:35:06 UTC
Yeah this ship is going to be pretty worthless for kiting.

If I am doing the math right it will do 1136 with navigation and acceleration control 5 , outside of speed mode
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#58 - 2015-05-10 19:06:36 UTC
Capqu wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
With only two lowslots, you might as well just auto fit it with a Damage Control and a BCU. Two lowslots is not as crippling as two mids, but it's still really restrictive of potential fits.

I'm holding out for the Hecate.

[edit: I mean, it has enough mids to double web, so it slaughters frigates, but lots of things slaughter frigates.


dude its already absolutely absurd with 2 lows

nothing can fight this 1v1 in faction war

you want it to be good with light missiles too?

Yes, actually, we do. Being viable with lights is something the Corax falls flat on its face over compared to the Talwar, and the anemic powergrid certainly puts a wrench in it with that. Bumping up the powergrid and scan res would be very important since at this stage it would have quite a bit of difficulty fitting a full rack of light missiles and a normal tank on its mids without investing heavily in powergrid mods/rigs.

I can safely say that a lot of us do NOT want to see a second Corax in terms of fitting options. We'd rather it be competitive with the Flycatcher, since aside from the extra mid slot and damage selectibility, the flycatcher would still kick the crap out of this in a 1v1 in any engagement. You cannot say the same for the minmatar and amarrian d3s vs their dictors.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#59 - 2015-05-10 19:17:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Catherine Laartii
Saerin Korvalu wrote:
The main problem I'm seeing with the ship is the gimped PWG. It's ridiculously low.

Less PWG than a Corax. -_-

I find this infuriating. They shouldn't be locking it to one weapon system; it needs to have usability with light missiles without fitting a crapload of pg mods to even be passable with just a med extender and mwd.

Hell, even the speed is wrong. If they're going to make it a strict brawler, it needs to be able to catch up and grab things; the flycatcher is wonderful for that. The hawk gets away with it since it has oodles of tank (and it's still faster than the jackdaw, I believe). Being slow is ONLY ok if you have good viability with light missiles.

Give defensive mode a rep bonus instead of the bloody useless sig radius bonus; it only works on the Confessor since it's an armor boat. Bump up speed and powergrid significantly; you already have the 10mn problem fixed by the low mass so you don't need to worry as much about oversized fitting.

I will repeat; you NEED to have light missile be the base for what it can fit normally. If you can't fit med extender, mwd, and all the other mids, lows and rigs without any assistance you're doing the build wrong. Please don't give us another Corax.

EDIT: After comparing it to the flycatcher I take back everything I said. The fitting on it should be fine, especially with a micro aux power core or PDS in one of the bottom slots for double extender builds. Single extender rockets setups with two BCS should be pretty evil for brawling with all that shield hp to work with, and LM setups with damps and potentially other ewar have a strong possibility.
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#60 - 2015-05-10 19:26:09 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Saerin Korvalu wrote:
The main problem I'm seeing with the ship is the gimped PWG. It's ridiculously low.

Less PWG than a Corax. -_-

I find this infuriating. They shouldn't be locking it to one weapon system; it needs to have usability with light missiles without fitting a crapload of pg mods to even be passable with just a med extender and mwd.

Hell, even the speed is wrong. If they're going to make it a strict brawler, it needs to be able to catch up and grab things; the flycatcher is wonderful for that. The hawk gets away with it since it has oodles of tank (and it's still faster than the jackdaw, I believe). Being slow is ONLY ok if you have good viability with light missiles.

Give defensive mode a rep bonus instead of the bloody useless sig radius bonus; it only works on the Confessor since it's an armor boat. Bump up speed and powergrid significantly; you already have the 10mn problem fixed by the low mass so you don't need to worry as much about oversized fitting.

I will repeat; you NEED to have light missile be the base for what it can fit normally. If you can't fit med extender, mwd, and all the other mids, lows and rigs without any assistance you're doing the build wrong. Please don't give us another Corax.

Dude. Flycatcher has 63 pwg and has to fit 7 launchers. This has 56 and only needs to fit 5. It has a built in extender. Calm down.