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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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[Carnyx] The Jackdaw

First post
Author
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#21 - 2015-05-09 22:54:38 UTC
it would be helpful to include speeds with various prop mods. even the obviously broken ones that you think aren't broken.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2015-05-09 22:55:06 UTC
If you're doing a missile look-at in June too, you need to tell us now. Feedback is worthless without knowing this.

I say this because it was mooted previously.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#23 - 2015-05-09 23:00:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
With only two lowslots, you might as well just auto fit it with a Damage Control and a BCU. Two lowslots is not as crippling as two mids, but it's still really restrictive of potential fits.

I'm holding out for the Hecate.

[edit: I mean, it has enough mids to double web, so it slaughters frigates, but lots of things slaughter frigates.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Capqu
Half Empty
#24 - 2015-05-09 23:18:29 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
With only two lowslots, you might as well just auto fit it with a Damage Control and a BCU. Two lowslots is not as crippling as two mids, but it's still really restrictive of potential fits.

I'm holding out for the Hecate.

[edit: I mean, it has enough mids to double web, so it slaughters frigates, but lots of things slaughter frigates.


dude its already absolutely absurd with 2 lows

nothing can fight this 1v1 in faction war

you want it to be good with light missiles too?
Escobar Slim III
YOLOSWAGHASHTAGDOLLARBILLZSWIMMINGPOOLICECREAMS
#25 - 2015-05-09 23:24:27 UTC
firts.
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#26 - 2015-05-09 23:40:13 UTC
Looks really interesting, looking forward to it! I will hold back with predictions regarding performance, but it will be a tanky ************ for sure!

RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#27 - 2015-05-09 23:42:57 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Ao Kishuba wrote:
seriously though please remove the kinetic lock. Caldari is the only of the four races with no selectable damage type for a main weapon.

Incorrect.

Ao Kishuba wrote:
Minmatar get both projectiles and missiles, with no damage locks on any.

They also operate primarily in falloff range... where you deal less than "on paper" damage.

With the missile-centric boats... they get less launchers and deal less raw damage.

Ao Kishuba wrote:
Gallente get drones, which can do any type of damage.

Theoretically, yes.
But unless you are talking about sentry drones (where the EM sentries are actually decent)... almost any drone ship will utilize Thermal or Explosive drones... because the Thermal drones deal the most damage and Explosive drones are the fastest.
EM and Kinetic drones are still not that good because they fall in-between these two "must have" stats.

Ao Kishuba wrote:
Amarr also have bonused drone ships, and a few Khanid missile ships with no damage locks.

For drones... see Gallente.
For the Khanid... they follow the same paradigm as the Minmatar missile slingers.


So yeah... all the races are semi-locked into certain damage types. I don't see a problem with this.


On topic: Interesting ship. I must admit... was expecting some kind of super-Garmur. But it's too early to tell.
Onslaughtor
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#28 - 2015-05-09 23:51:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Onslaughtor
... honestly this is very disappointing. With only two lows there is no room for the fun and creative fits that made the other two so much fun, not counting the silliness that was the 10mn version(But we fixed those and we still can have fun fits like LSE svipuls with web and scram). I don't need 6 mids. Personally I would leave most the stats and just swap a mid to a low. 3-5-6 thats well balanced and keeps it in a different space than the other ships it has to compete against in its own missile using category.

If I were to make more changes I would have strived for a different bonus for the missiles, like a 7.5% for rockets and a 5% for lights. But that can be fixed on the weapons themselves. The Propulsion bonus also feels very lackluster to the point where I really don’t see myself using it for much else than insta warping from gate to gate.

*Edit*
Thinking about this more I do agree with people that they would reap facwar as fast as a drifter. But these things don't belong in small complexes and I think most of us can agree that we shouldn't be balancing ships around facwar alone.
Maurice Shepard
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2015-05-09 23:56:49 UTC
Onslaughtor wrote:
... honestly this is very disappointing. With only two lows there is no room for the fun and creative fits that made the other two so much fun, not counting the silliness that was the 10mn version(But we fixed those and we still can have fun fits like LSE svipuls with web and scram). I don't need 6 mids. Personally I would leave most the stats and just swap a mid to a low. 3-5-6 thats well balanced and keeps it in a different space than the other ships it has to compete against in its own missile using category.

If I were to make more changes I would have strived for a different bonus for the missiles, like a 7.5% for rockets and a 5% for lights. But that can be fixed on the weapons themselves. The Propulsion bonus also feels very lackluster to the point where I really don’t see myself using it for much else than insta warping from gate to gate.


I completely agree with this.

Also all the people above in this thread that are whining about the PG should probably stop comparing this thing to the pre-nerf extremely OP 10MN AB dual ASB I'm-gonna-moonwalk-out-of-here Svipul and think about why this thing has so little pg.
Theronth Valarax
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#30 - 2015-05-10 00:05:49 UTC
I did some math with the stats we have atm and it seems like its gonna be way better as a brawler.
Still, LML fit it gonna be proper cancerous. All those mids for ewar, yo.
Specia1 K
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#31 - 2015-05-10 00:07:07 UTC
Maurice Shepard wrote:
Onslaughtor wrote:
... honestly this is very disappointing. With only two lows there is no room for the fun and creative fits that made the other two so much fun, not counting the silliness that was the 10mn version(But we fixed those and we still can have fun fits like LSE svipuls with web and scram). I don't need 6 mids. Personally I would leave most the stats and just swap a mid to a low. 3-5-6 thats well balanced and keeps it in a different space than the other ships it has to compete against in its own missile using category.

If I were to make more changes I would have strived for a different bonus for the missiles, like a 7.5% for rockets and a 5% for lights. But that can be fixed on the weapons themselves. The Propulsion bonus also feels very lackluster to the point where I really don’t see myself using it for much else than insta warping from gate to gate.


I completely agree with this.

Also all the people above in this thread that are whining about the PG should probably stop comparing this thing to the pre-nerf extremely OP 10MN AB dual ASB I'm-gonna-moonwalk-out-of-here Svipul and think about why this thing has so little pg.


I said this ship was pre-nerfed and it is.

Might have a few specific roles, but Svipul will still dominate the kills.

Champion of the Knights of the General Discussion

Thunderdome

Maurice Shepard
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2015-05-10 00:07:32 UTC
Theronth Valarax wrote:
I did some math with the stats we have atm and it seems like its gonna be way better as a brawler.
Still, LML fit it gonna be proper cancerous. All those mids for ewar, yo.


Kite fits possibly with 2 tracking disruptors or something, I don't know. Could be pretty OP.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#33 - 2015-05-10 00:15:45 UTC
Onslaughtor wrote:
But these things don't belong in small complexes and I think most of us can agree that we shouldn't be balancing ships around facwar alone.


That's pretty much the gist of it. Yes, it is pain train against mostly commonly flown faction warfare ships, but otherwise I don't see a whole lot of use for it, and there are other things that already do that anyway.

Like I said, I'm holding out for the Hecate. That thing will be obscene.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Onslaughtor
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#34 - 2015-05-10 00:35:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Onslaughtor
Ok, now having taken the time to run some basic numbers. With this slot layout and the power-grid there are only a very few ways to fit it. Nothing fun or creative to see here only a more powerful flycatcher with mode switching. There is way too little pwg as well, for anything. Taking my other post into account I would swap a mid to a low for a 3 -5- 6 set up and add maybe up to 2 power grid (so that it is in line with the others), and compress the bonuses for the launchers so it can have 2 utility highs like everyone else. The reason for adding 2 powergrid is that unlike guns you cant change the pwg used by small launchers. There is no better option when fitting them, only fitting less.

Maybe this will make it overpowered with the silly prop bonus when people manage to squeeze on a 10mn ab, but really that bonus should be changed anyway because we can barely fit the ab that it was meant to fly with when you came up with it with the pre nerf T3Ds. The postnerf T3Ds with 10mns from what I have seen aren't very good, this would be no different if this thing was made to match.

But we can be honest with that as well, if the stats do appear to be out of line or the ship is getting way more use than it needs once it is out, then scale it back. You weren’t heavy handed with the Ishtar why be so heavy handed with this? The Gila and Worm haven’t been touched yet and they are still silly strong.


* Edit*
I feel I should reiterate my earlier point, these things don't belong in small complexes and I think most of us can agree that we shouldn't be balancing ships around facwar alone.

*Alright being to aggressive, pulling back my opinion a tad. Hindsight lets you realize you weren't paying enough attention to the tank bonuses.*
Lev Ironwill
Dark Nebula Academy
O X I D E
#35 - 2015-05-10 01:00:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Lev Ironwill
afkalt wrote:
If you're doing a missile look-at in June too, you need to tell us now. Feedback is worthless without knowing this.

I say this because it was mooted previously.

This is what I would like to know as well, lasers and projectiles were both addressed with their respective T3D's so will missiles be getting a look with the Jackdaw?
I would like to be exited for this new ship, I should be, but I'm hesitant to get my hopes up about a missile ship being more than niche.

Edit:
If you are looking to address some missiles, can I suggest Heavies, or Torpedoes? Or maybe the disparity in missile fitting options? Or flight times for long range missiles that make long range systems very niche?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#36 - 2015-05-10 01:09:44 UTC
Lev Ironwill wrote:
afkalt wrote:
If you're doing a missile look-at in June too, you need to tell us now. Feedback is worthless without knowing this.

I say this because it was mooted previously.

This is what I would like to know as well, lasers and projectiles were both addressed with their respective T3D's so will missiles be getting a look with the Jackdaw?
I would like to be exited for this new ship, I should be, but I'm hesitant to get my hopes up about a missile ship being more than niche.


No, because that might possibly mean that Caldari would get buffed. Pretty sure that it's in the rules somewhere that they aren't allowed to buff Caldari.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Wild Things
Wilderness
#37 - 2015-05-10 02:05:00 UTC
I'm concerned about the possible large fleet application of these compared to the other T3D's. I'd really like to see the raw HP bonus reconsidered and possibly changed to a shield boost amount bonus if you're still keen on having it be extremely tanky.


People complaining about it not having enough powergrid... christ.

In this moment, I am euphoric.

Tiberian Deci
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2015-05-10 03:36:36 UTC
Thank you for not kinetic locking the damage bonus.
Grm Makentor
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#39 - 2015-05-10 03:53:43 UTC
On the whole, not that impressed.
Huge sig + no room for 10mn is going to gimp it against anything larger than itself
Low base speed, poor speed bonus means it can't LML kite anything smaller than itself
Jackdaw is already basically consigned to insane rocket brawler that no-one will engage in FW space or en mass alpha strike gang, like an expensive overtanked talwar. I really cant see any other setups where it would be effective at all.
Nothing about this ship makes me want to fly it or bring it to a gang to be honest
Dato Koppla
Kiwis In Space
Dock Workers
#40 - 2015-05-10 04:48:50 UTC
Because the first iteration of T3Ds were so broken with 10MN it seems people can't see past it anymore. 50% of this thread is "it can't fit 10MN therefore it's useless".

Overall it looks pretty good, 6 mids is definitely powerful and can allow for some nice brawl fits. LML kite will probably be quite deadly especially with lots of defensive options like damps/defensive web/defensive scram etc.