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Dev blog: Summer 2015 Nullsec and Sov Status Report

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Sigras
Conglomo
#41 - 2015-05-07 18:48:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Sigras
bigbillthaboss3 wrote:
Dr Cedric wrote:
I think the incentive for most Null-Sec'ers (me included) is that if I want PvP, I can do it, if I want PvE, I can do it, and for the most part, the people around me want to do it also. Moreover, we want to do those things in groups rather than solo.

The incentive is already there. People are living in Null Sec and making ISK and having fun and shooting stuff. I suppose New Fozzie-Sov will allow those things to continue to happen, and probably a little bit more on the PvP side.

ISK isn't the incentive... if it was no one would live in Null-sec or Low-sec and we'd all be friends in an incursion fleet Ugh

This new sov system will create a trend of everyone moving closer together in order to better defend, which is a good idea. It will definately increase the ~peeveepee~ aspect of the game. I have no problem with the sov changes.

However, when you start getting more and more people into closer quarters your income is going to drop. When the income decreases you lose ability to buy new ships. Lacking the ability to support your pvp hobbies means you stop fielding ships to fights. Yes, alot of people will still make isk from moongoo and production, but a majority make their income via simplistic routes such as ratting.

Making isk to enjoy the other aspects of the game is the incentive, my friend. You can't shoot stuff from a pod.

Well, that is exactly the point isnt it? Everyone wants to be in the same system for protection yet they have to kinda spread out to make money...

Its a fantastic balance of risk vs isk.

My only concern is that the scaling vulnerability window makes it much harder to take and hold new systems than systems that are already established...
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#42 - 2015-05-07 18:48:58 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Bethan Le Troix wrote:
mynnna wrote:
Xttz's fingerprints on the timezone mechanics, mine all over the mineral changes, sov is just goons all the way down.


Yeah I know. 'Absolute power corrupts absolutely'. Evil

I do agree the new revised timezone mechanic is a very good idea though. Smile



/me takes the melted gummy bears off his fingers.

There's a reason my name is mentioned, you know.

Sadly you're not goon. Therefore the tinfoil factor is limited, decreasing demand for your credit.

I did like the variability idea though, if that makes you feel any better.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#43 - 2015-05-07 18:50:23 UTC
Yroc Jannseen wrote:
Alexis Nightwish wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Alexis Nightwish wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
...our first generation Activity Defense Multiplier system will not include contributions from typical capital system activity such as trading and manufacturing. We hope to work towards including these factors in future iterations of the Activity Defense Multiplier mechanic, but in the meantime we need an effective way for alliances to defend their staging systems.
You stated that anything that contributes to indexes must be disruptable in space which is why you didn't want manufacturing to contribute to the industrial index. Now you're saying manufacturing and trade (both very easily gamed) will eventually contribute?.

manufacturing requires extensive in-space flying to bring in raws and export finished products

JFs are basically unkillable, so until that changes manufacturing is not disruptable.


Does everyone who does industry have a JF?

Confirming that I build capitals with myself, A blockade runner, and my entire life-savings shoved into cargo.
Vyle Feelings
Cheesemonger Managerial Consortium
#44 - 2015-05-07 19:01:52 UTC
Is there any intention of buffing systems that do not contain the resources necessary to increase indices? My alliance currently owns a system with 0 astroid belts, making it difficult to raise the military and industry indexes. We kill gate rats and run any anomalies that spawn, but it's slow going. Under the new mechanics, solar systems like this will be at a severe disadvantage and difficult to maintain defensive indexes for.
Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#45 - 2015-05-07 19:08:52 UTC
Still not keen; was hoping for the free-form 'sovless' system to be given more consideration - this one still seems contrived and immersion breaking.

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
Yroc Jannseen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#46 - 2015-05-07 19:18:23 UTC
Vyle Feelings wrote:
Is there any intention of buffing systems that do not contain the resources necessary to increase indices? My alliance currently owns a system with 0 astroid belts, making it difficult to raise the military and industry indexes. We kill gate rats and run any anomalies that spawn, but it's slow going. Under the new mechanics, solar systems like this will be at a severe disadvantage and difficult to maintain defensive indexes for.



FA would drop a refinery in a system with no belts. What a cruel joke.
Molenius Morrowinger
Doomheim
#47 - 2015-05-07 19:19:51 UTC
Vyle Feelings wrote:
Is there any intention of buffing systems that do not contain the resources necessary to increase indices? My alliance currently owns a system with 0 astroid belts, making it difficult to raise the military and industry indexes. We kill gate rats and run any anomalies that spawn, but it's slow going. Under the new mechanics, solar systems like this will be at a severe disadvantage and difficult to maintain defensive indexes for.


Systems should not be all equal, otherwise what is the purpose of fighting?
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#48 - 2015-05-07 19:23:49 UTC
Molenius Morrowinger wrote:
Vyle Feelings wrote:
Is there any intention of buffing systems that do not contain the resources necessary to increase indices? My alliance currently owns a system with 0 astroid belts, making it difficult to raise the military and industry indexes. We kill gate rats and run any anomalies that spawn, but it's slow going. Under the new mechanics, solar systems like this will be at a severe disadvantage and difficult to maintain defensive indexes for.


Systems should not be all equal, otherwise what is the purpose of fighting?

Yeah, but the bottom level of value doesn't need to be so low.

Is there really no belts there?
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#49 - 2015-05-07 19:44:03 UTC
My only real concern about the new system is it does not get rid of the defensive grind for "no show" events. Basically its when an attacker reinforced everything but has no intention to show up for the capture event. This is still found in pos warfare where you have to rep the pos. This got do bad with dominion sov that they rebalanced hp over resist... but this is not going away with elinks. .. you still have to defense gtind your stuff even if the attacker dont show.

My solution for this is simple.give the 1st 5 capture annoms a timer if no enemy elink is activated in that window then the annoms go away and no defense grind.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
SpaceSaft
Almost Dangerous
Wolves Amongst Strangers
#50 - 2015-05-07 19:47:58 UTC
Looks very good.

I like the alliance "capital" system status a lot.

I don't think you have to take that away even after you incorporate industry and market activity into the multiplier.

Concerning the UI, did you consider putting "Upcoming vulnerabillity" time windows on the galaxy map?

Consider me hyped for summer.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#51 - 2015-05-07 19:49:23 UTC
I'm still unclear on how the entosos link works. Say I have run through the warmup timer, then ran it for 5 more minutes. At that point I get interrupted by the enemy.

What happens to that 5 minutes? Does it persist forever? Does it decay? Does it just go away, and I have to start over once the enemy has been cleared off?

If it does persist in some way, what happens if the enemy uses an Entosos link? Do they first drive my time to zero before building up their own time? Or do they have their own timer, and its first to the total that wins? Or what?

On another note : I propose an Entosis link never destroys any structure. It only allows capture. In addition, all structures (ALL structures) have a self destruct system. Said system cannot function if an Entosis link is active on the structure, or the structure is in its timer.

Now, you want to capture? Use your link. You want to destroy? Capture, then push the button. You want to evacuate and leave nothing for the enemy? You better do it before the enemy shows up, and remember one spy with an Entosis link can cancel the self destruct.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Dr Cedric
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#52 - 2015-05-07 19:50:32 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
My only real concern about the new system is it does not get rid of the defensive grind for "no show" events. Basically its when an attacker reinforced everything but has no intention to show up for the capture event. This is still found in pos warfare where you have to rep the pos. This got do bad with dominion sov that they rebalanced hp over resist... but this is not going away with elinks. .. you still have to defense gtind your stuff even if the attacker dont show.

My solution for this is simple.give the 1st 5 capture annoms a timer if no enemy elink is activated in that window then the annoms go away and no defense grind.



From my understanding of the system (which is not all-inclusive) you only need 5/2 (T1/T2) minutes + 5 minutes to capture the sov beacon... and I think that all 5 of the beacons spawn at the same time (right?). Wouldn't that mean a max of 7 minutes of time across 5 characters to end the capture game.

Am I right on this?

Cedric
Vyle Feelings
Cheesemonger Managerial Consortium
#53 - 2015-05-07 19:51:59 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Molenius Morrowinger wrote:
Vyle Feelings wrote:
Is there any intention of buffing systems that do not contain the resources necessary to increase indices? My alliance currently owns a system with 0 astroid belts, making it difficult to raise the military and industry indexes. We kill gate rats and run any anomalies that spawn, but it's slow going. Under the new mechanics, solar systems like this will be at a severe disadvantage and difficult to maintain defensive indexes for.


Systems should not be all equal, otherwise what is the purpose of fighting?

Yeah, but the bottom level of value doesn't need to be so low.

Is there really no belts there?


Yah, zero belts. When I first got to the system and started poking around I thought they had moved the astroid belts option in the right click menu. I went to check dotlan and couldn't find the belts info there either. Then I realized it was just a garbage system. Poor truesec, no belts, but it's home ;).
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#54 - 2015-05-07 19:53:40 UTC
Dr Cedric wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
My only real concern about the new system is it does not get rid of the defensive grind for "no show" events. Basically its when an attacker reinforced everything but has no intention to show up for the capture event. This is still found in pos warfare where you have to rep the pos. This got do bad with dominion sov that they rebalanced hp over resist... but this is not going away with elinks. .. you still have to defense gtind your stuff even if the attacker dont show.

My solution for this is simple.give the 1st 5 capture annoms a timer if no enemy elink is activated in that window then the annoms go away and no defense grind.



From my understanding of the system (which is not all-inclusive) you only need 5/2 (T1/T2) minutes + 5 minutes to capture the sov beacon... and I think that all 5 of the beacons spawn at the same time (right?). Wouldn't that mean a max of 7 minutes of time across 5 characters to end the capture game.

Am I right on this?

In think you need to capture more beacons than that. But it is still relatively fast.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#55 - 2015-05-07 19:58:37 UTC
Dr Cedric wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
My only real concern about the new system is it does not get rid of the defensive grind for "no show" events. Basically its when an attacker reinforced everything but has no intention to show up for the capture event. This is still found in pos warfare where you have to rep the pos. This got do bad with dominion sov that they rebalanced hp over resist... but this is not going away with elinks. .. you still have to defense gtind your stuff even if the attacker dont show.

My solution for this is simple.give the 1st 5 capture annoms a timer if no enemy elink is activated in that window then the annoms go away and no defense grind.



From my understanding of the system (which is not all-inclusive) you only need 5/2 (T1/T2) minutes + 5 minutes to capture the sov beacon... and I think that all 5 of the beacons spawn at the same time (right?). Wouldn't that mean a max of 7 minutes of time across 5 characters to end the capture game.

Am I right on this?


Even still you could literally have hundreds of these per region... and i though it wss 10 you have to capture per event. It makes defense into a chore which it should not be.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Peter Sibiro
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#56 - 2015-05-07 19:58:46 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

I have good news for you! Other than the exact real time status of the fights for each structure (which will only be available in-client), we plan to make everything available via a combination of CREST and the XML API. You'll be able to look up the exit timers of every reinforced sov structure in the game (yours and everyone elses) via CREST whenever you want.


can't wait to get my hands on this API and show all timers here - http://npsi.rvb-services.com/

much love Fozzie!
Sodamn In-sane
Doomheim
#57 - 2015-05-07 20:12:49 UTC
yeah yeah , blah blah positive feedback and all that bollocks,now can we have our jump fatigue off and range back ,now that you got us all sitting in our own owned space ty ty

RIP greyscale

Fozzie

job change is good but you're still a muppet
Rekkr Nordgard
Steelforge Heavy Industries
#58 - 2015-05-07 20:16:00 UTC
Alexis Nightwish wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Firstly, it will be possible for alliances to set custom vulnerability timers per structure.
You've gone from no granularity to too much granularity. The problem with allowing every structure to have a different window is you make it a massive chore for attackers to strike. Now instead of "Alliance X is vulnerable from 12:00-16:00" you have "Alliance X, System ABC-D: TCU is vulnerable from 12:00-16:00, Station vulnerable from 16:00-20:00, IHUB is vulnerable from 20:00-0:00, System WXY-Z: TCU is vulnerable from 0:00-04:00, Station vulnerable from 04:00-08:00, IHUB is vulnerable from 08:00-12:00, System OMG-Y (on the other side of the constallation): TCU vulnerable from 12:00-16:00, Station vulnerable from 16:00-20:00, IHUB is vulnerable from 20:00-0:00, etc., etc., etc.!


This.

The maximum customability should on a one timer per system or constellation basis. An attacker should be able to make a clean sweep of a system's structures in one set of timers, not have to show up at three completely different times for the iHub, TCU, and station.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#59 - 2015-05-07 20:21:11 UTC
Dr Cedric wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
My only real concern about the new system is it does not get rid of the defensive grind for "no show" events. Basically its when an attacker reinforced everything but has no intention to show up for the capture event. This is still found in pos warfare where you have to rep the pos. This got do bad with dominion sov that they rebalanced hp over resist... but this is not going away with elinks. .. you still have to defense gtind your stuff even if the attacker dont show.

My solution for this is simple.give the 1st 5 capture annoms a timer if no enemy elink is activated in that window then the annoms go away and no defense grind.



From my understanding of the system (which is not all-inclusive) you only need 5/2 (T1/T2) minutes + 5 minutes to capture the sov beacon... and I think that all 5 of the beacons spawn at the same time (right?). Wouldn't that mean a max of 7 minutes of time across 5 characters to end the capture game.

Am I right on this?



5 or 2 minutes warm up cycle (if you're interrupted and miss a cycle, you need to redo this. For a capital, this is multiplied up)

Once the warmup cycle is complete, the capture timer starts ticking. (10 minutes multiplied by the defensive multiplier) needs to pass, with you uncontested, for the thing to be captured/reinforced/whatever. The moment someone (in the owning alliance) slaps another link on it, it's contested, and the timer stops ticking.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#60 - 2015-05-07 20:22:39 UTC
Peter Sibiro wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

I have good news for you! Other than the exact real time status of the fights for each structure (which will only be available in-client), we plan to make everything available via a combination of CREST and the XML API. You'll be able to look up the exit timers of every reinforced sov structure in the game (yours and everyone elses) via CREST whenever you want.


can't wait to get my hands on this API and show all timers here - http://npsi.rvb-services.com/

much love Fozzie!



While you couldn't replace me with a button which says 'is there an api for that?' when it's pressed, it's close.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter