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[June] [Updated] Module Tiericide - Afterburners & Microwarpdrives

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Tiberian Deci
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#141 - 2015-05-04 17:42:33 UTC
Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:
Quote:
Q: Why have you changed the MWDs to 5/50/500MN?
A: We want show there is a clear increase in power between Afterburners and Microwarpdrives. It also makes searching the market a little easier.


This is going to get very annoying, very fast. You are making people type in two different strings each time they search for a prop mod in EFT or the market. 1 for frigs, 10 for cruisers, 100 for battleships, please keep it that way.


Who on earth uses the search function on a regular basis. Even if you didn't know what the name of the mod is that you were looking for you could still search for "Microwarp drive" and it will bring up the relevant modules. If you're searching for "Experimental 10MN Afterburner" why the hell are you searching, you already know where it is just use the menu to get there.
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#142 - 2015-05-04 17:48:16 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
With a Gistii A-Type 1/5MN Microwarpdrive fit Garmur (3x faction overdrives, high grade snakes, zor's custom navigation link, max fleet bonuses and quafe zero) in KSpace I'm getting -
  • 9036 m/s Prepatch > 9327 m/s Postpatch
  • 13085 m/s Prepatch > 13140 m/s Postpatch Overloaded



You might want to recheck that, it's obvious that the difference should be larger when hot.
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#143 - 2015-05-04 17:51:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Iroquoiss Pliskin
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Charlie Firpol wrote:
A friend of mine that regulary flies boosted, snaked factionfit Garmurs just did the numbers. His Garmur will be 1440m/s faster after this, without heat.

Hrm, Can I see you friends math?

With a Gistii A-Type 1/5MN Microwarpdrive fit Garmur (faction, snakes, zor's custom, and max fleet bonuses) in KSpace I'm getting -
  • 8606 m/s Prepatch > 8883 m/s Postpatch
  • 12462 m/s Prepatch > 12514 m/s Postpatch Overloaded


Rekt.

That said, now that you've differentiated MWDs, I proposed to reduce all MWD base speed values by 50, so A-Types get 468%, Tech 2 460% and so forth.

Things are getting a little too Need For Speedy II.

// [PvP Damage Done by Class (Scylla)] //

[Cruisers Online]
Hendrink Collie
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#144 - 2015-05-04 17:57:24 UTC
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Charlie Firpol wrote:
A friend of mine that regulary flies boosted, snaked factionfit Garmurs just did the numbers. His Garmur will be 1440m/s faster after this, without heat.

Hrm, Can I see you friends math?

With a Gistii A-Type 1/5MN Microwarpdrive fit Garmur (faction, snakes, zor's custom, and max fleet bonuses) in KSpace I'm getting -
  • 8606 m/s Prepatch > 8883 m/s Postpatch
  • 12462 m/s Prepatch > 12514 m/s Postpatch Overloaded


Rekt.

That said, now that you've differentiated MWDs, I proposed to reduce all MWD base speed values by 50, so A-Types get 468%, Tech 2 460% and so forth.

Things are getting a little too Need For Speedy II.


I actually really like this tweak, an across the board -50% on MWDs. +1 Smile

Larrikin, what would that do to the above example, if you don't mind.
Tyr Dolorem
State War Academy
Caldari State
#145 - 2015-05-04 18:00:21 UTC
I still don't think you've done enough to differentiate officer from deadspace.
Ereshgikal
Wharf Crusaders
#146 - 2015-05-04 18:03:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Ereshgikal
Titus Tallang wrote:
Would it be possible to keep the size and the "Afterburner" or "Microwarpdrive" together? It makes buying them easier (you can simply search for "10mn afterburner" and find all of them.

So for example "Cold-Gas Enduring 500MN Microwarpdrive" instead of "500MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive".

Besides that - I like it, and I think you've struck a good balance between conserving flavor and adding clarity.



Or you can use "500MN" since that would now be MWDs only....


@CCP:
I like all the changes; speed; names; fitting. Nice work!
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#147 - 2015-05-04 18:05:33 UTC
In before garmur nerf?

Yaay!!!!
Tikktokk Tokkzikk
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#148 - 2015-05-04 18:13:56 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
In before garmur nerf?


If my calculations are correct, my Garmur just went from 7,333m/s to 7,596m/s.

Can't say a buffed Garmur makes me happy.
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#149 - 2015-05-04 18:16:37 UTC
I'm really confused about the cap usage swap between RF/domination and FN/shadow serpentis ABs. There's absolutely nothing going for RF now except a few tf of CPU, why would anyone want to fit one with these stats?
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#150 - 2015-05-04 18:20:17 UTC
In this rebalance pass, can we please get the tags removed from the LP as a requirement? I mean to create a 1MN Federation MWD, you have to spend 372M ISK to create it.
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#151 - 2015-05-04 18:25:50 UTC
Whaaa I just noticed the 60% heat bonus for officer mods, they're actually good now.
Terra Chrall
Doomheim
#152 - 2015-05-04 18:26:15 UTC
Titus Tallang wrote:
Would it be possible to keep the size and the "Afterburner" or "Microwarpdrive" together? It makes buying them easier (you can simply search for "10mn afterburner" and find all of them.

So for example "Cold-Gas Enduring 500MN Microwarpdrive" instead of "500MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive".

No need to rearrange name. Because now all you have type is 10mn and you get all cruiser sized afterburners. You type 50mn and you get all the cruiser sized MWD.

Actually if they keep the change of 5/50/500, which I hope they do, you could remove AB and MWD from the name, as it is implied then. But I guess that could get confusing especially for new players, and we don't want that. But I still like the new numbers.
I have searched the market before using 1mn and bought a MWD when I meant to buy an AB.
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#153 - 2015-05-04 18:31:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Iroquoiss Pliskin
Harvey James wrote:
Quote:
With a Gistii A-Type 1/5MN Microwarpdrive fit Garmur (faction, snakes, zor's custom, and max fleet bonuses) in KSpace I'm getting -
  • 8606 m/s Prepatch > 8883 m/s Postpatch
  • 12462 m/s Prepatch > 12514 m/s Postpatch Overloaded



and you don't see a problem here??????????????????????????????


It's more with the Garmur having a low ship mass along with high base speed - any frigate can come close to those speeds with such a setup, but yes OGB proliferation and current MWD boost amounts is bad.

// [PvP Damage Done by Class (Scylla)] //

[Cruisers Online]
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#154 - 2015-05-04 18:34:08 UTC
Tiberian Deci wrote:
Who on earth uses the search function on a regular basis. Even if you didn't know what the name of the mod is that you were looking for you could still search for "Microwarp drive" and it will bring up the relevant modules. If you're searching for "Experimental 10MN Afterburner" why the hell are you searching, you already know where it is just use the menu to get there.

I use it nearly exclusively to find things in the market. I hate the menus, submenus, subsubmenues, expanding and collapsing menus. A simple "1MN A" in the search field and I get all I want. Same for "Javelin", "Antim", "Dram", "Cyna", "Provi", "Conflag", "Experimental" ... you get the picture. I do not understand why people use the menus in the first place. As soon as you have used modules often enough, you should have memorized their names and will be a whole lot faster with the search function to get to the modules than with clicking and scrolling through the menus. The only time when I find the menus useful is when I look for special things that I do not use often.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Terra Chrall
Doomheim
#155 - 2015-05-04 18:34:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Terra Chrall
Masao Kurata wrote:
I'm really confused about the cap usage swap between RF/domination and FN/shadow serpentis ABs. There's absolutely nothing going for RF now except a few tf of CPU, why would anyone want to fit one with these stats?

I was thinking along the same lines, the 2 that were less cap consumption are now the high use, and the 2 that were higher cap are less... why swap these around? It seem like it will hurt current owners that bought around the cap consumption. The fitting options are different, one uses more cpu one uses more power. I think CCP should change a different metric on these modules and not their cap use.

I would rather see a speed difference on the ABs and sig difference on the MWDs instead of reversing the cap consumption. This would allow current owners the same cap and fittings they built their fit around, while still making the modules different.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#156 - 2015-05-04 18:40:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
Phoenix Jones wrote:
I do like the name cold gas though. Monop..... Whatever is a bit long.
If you're having so much difficulty with a 5-syllable word as to render it beyond your ability to even type, I must wonder whether you and your vocabulary flip burgers for a living.

SpaceyX wrote:
Where are the capital propulsion mods?
In hell, where the ships that would fit them should be.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#157 - 2015-05-04 18:40:57 UTC
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Quote:
With a Gistii A-Type 1/5MN Microwarpdrive fit Garmur (faction, snakes, zor's custom, and max fleet bonuses) in KSpace I'm getting -
  • 8606 m/s Prepatch > 8883 m/s Postpatch
  • 12462 m/s Prepatch > 12514 m/s Postpatch Overloaded



and you don't see a problem here??????????????????????????????


It's more with the Garmur having a low ship mass along with high base speed - any frigate can come close to those speeds with such a setup, but yes OGB proliferation and current MWD boost amounts is bad.


I will say this, if they move ogb to ongrid boosts, then the speed buff is fine.

In this case, while there is power creep, the issue still revolves around boosts rather than the actual ship module (whatever tweak is made, boosts magnify it significantly).

Yaay!!!!
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#158 - 2015-05-04 18:41:37 UTC
a little surprised that the 'upgraded' meta isnt here, would allow more speed nerfs on the mwd's and some speed buffs on AB's

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#159 - 2015-05-04 18:44:44 UTC
it's too difficult to catch fast kiting ships. as for just shooting them, I don't think making them even faster is going to do useless missiles/combat drones any good.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#160 - 2015-05-04 18:51:40 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:

With a Gistii A-Type 1/5MN Microwarpdrive fit Garmur (faction, snakes, zor's custom, and max fleet bonuses) in KSpace I'm getting -
  • 8606 m/s Prepatch > 8883 m/s Postpatch
  • 12462 m/s Prepatch > 12514 m/s Postpatch Overloaded



why are you okay with this? is it not obviously a problem to you?