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Modifying mining lasers to show m3 while mining
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Jango Stone
#1 - 2015-04-30 18:23:18 UTC
As I have focused primarily on mining, though I'm not certain if this idea has been suggested yet (if so, forgive me, I wasn't able to find it elsewhere in the forum). It would be nice to have mining lasers show how many m3 of resources they are currently mining, as the green indicator of the current cycle grows clockwise, if you hover your mouse over it, the details it shows are current max range and total m3 per time for an entire cycle. It would be cool to have an ever advancing measure of the amount being mined by that laser grow along with the cycle indicator. Currently this at best is a guessing game when using a scanner compared to the total m3/cycle. This would alleviate the guessing and wasted cycles on smaller roids or ones that have less than a full cycle of resources left in them. If there is a reason why this feature has not been or will not be considered please by all means let me know, just my two cents on making this portion of the game more enjoyable for everyone.

Been playing for a few years now, I focus on Mining and mission running along with some planetary goods manufacturing, sales / exporting.
SGT FUNYOUN
Elysian Space Navy - 1st Fleet
#2 - 2015-04-30 19:36:57 UTC
Jango Stone wrote:
As I have focused primarily on mining, though I'm not certain if this idea has been suggested yet (if so, forgive me, I wasn't able to find it elsewhere in the forum). It would be nice to have mining lasers show how many m3 of resources they are currently mining, as the green indicator of the current cycle grows clockwise, if you hover your mouse over it, the details it shows are current max range and total m3 per time for an entire cycle. It would be cool to have an ever advancing measure of the amount being mined by that laser grow along with the cycle indicator. Currently this at best is a guessing game when using a scanner compared to the total m3/cycle. This would alleviate the guessing and wasted cycles on smaller roids or ones that have less than a full cycle of resources left in them. If there is a reason why this feature has not been or will not be considered please by all means let me know, just my two cents on making this portion of the game more enjoyable for everyone.


YES PLEASE !!!

+1

It would, as you said, alleviate wondering if you sucked out the last 15m3 of that roid or not and would allow a pilot to move from rock to rock faster and more efficiently!

Also, I want the old giant flashy lasers back... the ones that instead of looking like tiny precision surgical gear, looks like big beams of light shining from the hand of God while it blasts that rock apart and vacuums up the remains!
Madd Adda
#3 - 2015-04-30 19:41:11 UTC
you can get this with a calculator and knowledge of fractions

if one 180sec cycle gives you 1200m3, it stands to reason that 90 secs gives you 600m3

Carebear extraordinaire
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#4 - 2015-04-30 19:43:36 UTC
This would be absolutely perfect with the idea in my signature, +1000 Big smile

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”
SGT FUNYOUN
Elysian Space Navy - 1st Fleet
#5 - 2015-04-30 19:56:05 UTC
Madd Adda wrote:
you can get this with a calculator and knowledge of fractions

if one 180sec cycle gives you 1200m3, it stands to reason that 90 secs gives you 600m3


True.. but a) we are trying to make this game a bit more accessible to kids and other generations of players... not just math geeks and old grey beards... this is not table top gaming, we don't require the use of Roll20 to make our space ships fly... so in essence yes your math idea is great and all.. but that does not account for every single m3 at every single second and is; at best; still estimating a bunch...

Less guess work and more precision out of my tools.. Strip miners and mining lasers are tools... therefore at some point some genius miner of the future is going to want to know EXACTLY how many m3 of roid is in his cycle timer box so that he is not siting there shooting at a rock that has nothing else left in it and technically no longer exists. I know I have spent an entire cycle shooting at a roid that had 1 m3 left in it because I got distracted by something else and wasted a full cycle's worth of time shooting at literally nothing because the roid was depleted in the first 2 or 3 seconds of the cycle but the computer is too stupid to know that for some reason.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#6 - 2015-04-30 20:10:17 UTC
SGT FUNYOUN wrote:
Madd Adda wrote:
you can get this with a calculator and knowledge of fractions

if one 180sec cycle gives you 1200m3, it stands to reason that 90 secs gives you 600m3


True.. but a) we are trying to make this game a bit more accessible to kids and other generations of players... not just math geeks and old grey beards... this is not table top gaming, we don't require the use of Roll20 to make our space ships fly... so in essence yes your math idea is great and all.. but that does not account for every single m3 at every single second and is; at best; still estimating a bunch...

Less guess work and more precision out of my tools.. Strip miners and mining lasers are tools... therefore at some point some genius miner of the future is going to want to know EXACTLY how many m3 of roid is in his cycle timer box so that he is not siting there shooting at a rock that has nothing else left in it and technically no longer exists. I know I have spent an entire cycle shooting at a roid that had 1 m3 left in it because I got distracted by something else and wasted a full cycle's worth of time shooting at literally nothing because the roid was depleted in the first 2 or 3 seconds of the cycle but the computer is too stupid to know that for some reason.


But have it as a display feature, so you can short-cycle.
This rewards attentive gameplay without punishing those who continue to semi-AFK or AFK with lasers on the 3 biggest roids and come back in 20minutes to re-cycle the lasers.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
SGT FUNYOUN
Elysian Space Navy - 1st Fleet
#7 - 2015-04-30 20:26:14 UTC
James Baboli wrote:
SGT FUNYOUN wrote:
Madd Adda wrote:
you can get this with a calculator and knowledge of fractions

if one 180sec cycle gives you 1200m3, it stands to reason that 90 secs gives you 600m3


True.. but a) we are trying to make this game a bit more accessible to kids and other generations of players... not just math geeks and old grey beards... this is not table top gaming, we don't require the use of Roll20 to make our space ships fly... so in essence yes your math idea is great and all.. but that does not account for every single m3 at every single second and is; at best; still estimating a bunch...

Less guess work and more precision out of my tools.. Strip miners and mining lasers are tools... therefore at some point some genius miner of the future is going to want to know EXACTLY how many m3 of roid is in his cycle timer box so that he is not siting there shooting at a rock that has nothing else left in it and technically no longer exists. I know I have spent an entire cycle shooting at a roid that had 1 m3 left in it because I got distracted by something else and wasted a full cycle's worth of time shooting at literally nothing because the roid was depleted in the first 2 or 3 seconds of the cycle but the computer is too stupid to know that for some reason.


But have it as a display feature, so you can short-cycle.
This rewards attentive gameplay without punishing those who continue to semi-AFK or AFK with lasers on the 3 biggest roids and come back in 20minutes to re-cycle the lasers.


Yeah... not proposing that we change the way mining lasers and strip miners work, nor that you can't short cycle them... just an indicator that says PRECISELY how many m3 of roid is sitting in the mining laser's tractor beam from the start of a cycle to the end of a cycle, so that if you kick on your rock scanner and see it only has 53 m3 of roid left, and you have a 350m3 cycle timer... you can physically SEE when the cycle timer has reached that 53m3 of roid and can click it to short cycle so you are not wasting an ENTIRE 350m3 cycle timer waiting on a timer to cycle around for a rock that has already been depleted.
Iain Cariaba
#8 - 2015-04-30 21:03:20 UTC
SGT FUNYOUN wrote:
Madd Adda wrote:
you can get this with a calculator and knowledge of fractions

if one 180sec cycle gives you 1200m3, it stands to reason that 90 secs gives you 600m3


True.. but a) we are trying to make this game a bit more accessible to kids and other generations of players... not just math geeks and old grey beards... this is not table top gaming, we don't require the use of Roll20 to make our space ships fly... so in essence yes your math idea is great and all.. but that does not account for every single m3 at every single second and is; at best; still estimating a bunch...

Less guess work and more precision out of my tools.. Strip miners and mining lasers are tools... therefore at some point some genius miner of the future is going to want to know EXACTLY how many m3 of roid is in his cycle timer box so that he is not siting there shooting at a rock that has nothing else left in it and technically no longer exists. I know I have spent an entire cycle shooting at a roid that had 1 m3 left in it because I got distracted by something else and wasted a full cycle's worth of time shooting at literally nothing because the roid was depleted in the first 2 or 3 seconds of the cycle but the computer is too stupid to know that for some reason.

The knowledge needed to maximize your income is what sets the successful miner apart from everyone else. I spent 5 minutes, 7 years ago, to setup a spreadsheet to calculate all those numbers you want. I used that spreadsheet for 5 years before I got utterly sick of mining.

If you want more precision out of your tools, the onus is upon you to learn that precision. It is not up to CCP to spoon feed it to you.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#9 - 2015-04-30 21:45:44 UTC
Madd Adda wrote:
you can get this with a calculator and knowledge of fractions

if one 180sec cycle gives you 1200m3, it stands to reason that 90 secs gives you 600m3


Very much this!

OP,
the reason™ that EVE is sometimes referred to as Excel™ Online is that it is based upon a relational database where spreadsheets are applied to (your bookshelf in your character sheet, which is also a sheet).

If I wasn't too lazy to translate it, I could bring up a mathemathical proof that 1+1 = 2 in a way that would blow your mind.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Tiddle Jr
MOONFIRE SERVICE PROVIDER
#10 - 2015-04-30 22:30:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiddle Jr
SGT FUNYOUN wrote:
James Baboli wrote:
SGT FUNYOUN wrote:
Madd Adda wrote:
you can get this with a calculator and knowledge of fractions

if one 180sec cycle gives you 1200m3, it stands to reason that 90 secs gives you 600m3


True.. but a) we are trying to make this game a bit more accessible to kids and other generations of players... not just math geeks and old grey beards... this is not table top gaming, we don't require the use of Roll20 to make our space ships fly... so in essence yes your math idea is great and all.. but that does not account for every single m3 at every single second and is; at best; still estimating a bunch...

Less guess work and more precision out of my tools.. Strip miners and mining lasers are tools... therefore at some point some genius miner of the future is going to want to know EXACTLY how many m3 of roid is in his cycle timer box so that he is not siting there shooting at a rock that has nothing else left in it and technically no longer exists. I know I have spent an entire cycle shooting at a roid that had 1 m3 left in it because I got distracted by something else and wasted a full cycle's worth of time shooting at literally nothing because the roid was depleted in the first 2 or 3 seconds of the cycle but the computer is too stupid to know that for some reason.


But have it as a display feature, so you can short-cycle.
This rewards attentive gameplay without punishing those who continue to semi-AFK or AFK with lasers on the 3 biggest roids and come back in 20minutes to re-cycle the lasers.


Yeah... not proposing that we change the way mining lasers and strip miners work, nor that you can't short cycle them... just an indicator that says PRECISELY how many m3 of roid is sitting in the mining laser's tractor beam from the start of a cycle to the end of a cycle, so that if you kick on your rock scanner and see it only has 53 m3 of roid left, and you have a 350m3 cycle timer... you can physically SEE when the cycle timer has reached that 53m3 of roid and can click it to short cycle so you are not wasting an ENTIRE 350m3 cycle timer waiting on a timer to cycle around for a rock that has already been depleted.


(350m3 total cycle timer) / (180 sec total cycle timer) = m3/per second.
(53m3 of roid left) / (m3/per second) = success!

If i understand you correctly and you want to know when to stop your strip miner and don't waste doing full cycle while there are only 53m3 left in targeted roid.

Since when eve considered an easy layback process?

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#11 - 2015-04-30 23:50:40 UTC
Tiddle Jr wrote:

(350m3 total cycle timer) / (180 sec total cycle timer) = m3/per second.
(53m3 of roid left) / (m3/per second) = success!

If i understand you correctly and you want to know when to stop your strip miner and don't waste doing full cycle while there are only 53m3 left in targeted roid.

Since when eve considered an easy layback process?

That is fighting the UI. It's not 'difficulty' to fight the UI, it's bad design, or at least design that can be improved.
Player decisions & thinking should be interesting and tactical, not doing a maths exam constantly.
Tiddle Jr
MOONFIRE SERVICE PROVIDER
#12 - 2015-05-01 00:00:29 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Tiddle Jr wrote:

(350m3 total cycle timer) / (180 sec total cycle timer) = m3/per second.
(53m3 of roid left) / (m3/per second) = success!

If i understand you correctly and you want to know when to stop your strip miner and don't waste doing full cycle while there are only 53m3 left in targeted roid.

Since when eve considered an easy layback process?

That is fighting the UI. It's not 'difficulty' to fight the UI, it's bad design, or at least design that can be improved.
Player decisions & thinking should be interesting and tactical, not doing a maths exam constantly.


Well probably i didn't get the OP in the correct manner. Is it sounds so complicated to get all those lil numbers in your mind while doing specific task.

Kids are welcome to EvE.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2015-05-01 01:11:13 UTC
I trhink what you're asking for is actually a conversion of m3 into actual units of ore harvested from a specific rock, since m3 is always m3, and the mining lasers already tell you how much m3 per cycle you get.

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2015-05-01 01:13:31 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Tiddle Jr wrote:

(350m3 total cycle timer) / (180 sec total cycle timer) = m3/per second.
(53m3 of roid left) / (m3/per second) = success!

If i understand you correctly and you want to know when to stop your strip miner and don't waste doing full cycle while there are only 53m3 left in targeted roid.

Since when eve considered an easy layback process?

That is fighting the UI. It's not 'difficulty' to fight the UI, it's bad design, or at least design that can be improved.
Player decisions & thinking should be interesting and tactical, not doing a maths exam constantly.


Honestly, I'm against it. In the real world, you'd have to perform all the calculations yourself, or better yet, outsource that to some engineers.

At least here you get m3, and it shouldnt take much effort at all to LEARN YOUR CRAFT.

Pvpers have to learn their craft with a lot more variables. But miners cant figure out how to make notes for themselves after a few quick pushes of calculators buttons.

Starting to lose faith in miners' intelligence.

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2015-05-01 01:17:22 UTC  |  Edited by: 13kr1d1
Tiddle Jr wrote:
SGT FUNYOUN wrote:
James Baboli wrote:
SGT FUNYOUN wrote:
Madd Adda wrote:
you can get this with a calculator and knowledge of fractions

if one 180sec cycle gives you 1200m3, it stands to reason that 90 secs gives you 600m3


True.. but a) we are trying to make this game a bit more accessible to kids and other generations of players... not just math geeks and old grey beards... this is not table top gaming, we don't require the use of Roll20 to make our space ships fly... so in essence yes your math idea is great and all.. but that does not account for every single m3 at every single second and is; at best; still estimating a bunch...

Less guess work and more precision out of my tools.. Strip miners and mining lasers are tools... therefore at some point some genius miner of the future is going to want to know EXACTLY how many m3 of roid is in his cycle timer box so that he is not siting there shooting at a rock that has nothing else left in it and technically no longer exists. I know I have spent an entire cycle shooting at a roid that had 1 m3 left in it because I got distracted by something else and wasted a full cycle's worth of time shooting at literally nothing because the roid was depleted in the first 2 or 3 seconds of the cycle but the computer is too stupid to know that for some reason.


But have it as a display feature, so you can short-cycle.
This rewards attentive gameplay without punishing those who continue to semi-AFK or AFK with lasers on the 3 biggest roids and come back in 20minutes to re-cycle the lasers.


Yeah... not proposing that we change the way mining lasers and strip miners work, nor that you can't short cycle them... just an indicator that says PRECISELY how many m3 of roid is sitting in the mining laser's tractor beam from the start of a cycle to the end of a cycle, so that if you kick on your rock scanner and see it only has 53 m3 of roid left, and you have a 350m3 cycle timer... you can physically SEE when the cycle timer has reached that 53m3 of roid and can click it to short cycle so you are not wasting an ENTIRE 350m3 cycle timer waiting on a timer to cycle around for a rock that has already been depleted.


(350m3 total cycle timer) / (180 sec total cycle timer) = m3/per second.
(53m3 of roid left) / (m3/per second) = success!

If i understand you correctly and you want to know when to stop your strip miner and don't waste doing full cycle while there are only 53m3 left in targeted roid.

Since when eve considered an easy layback process?


Here's an easy trick to not overmining and wasting cycles, and real world mining operations do the same thing.

Don't try to mine all of the ore out from the area/roid. Move to another one earlier rather than later. If you calculate there's 2 and a half cycles left in a roid, stop your strip miners at the end of cycle 2, and move to another roid. Thats much less error prone than trying to time cycles.

Real companies do the same thing. Ever go by deserted mining pits with lots of leftovers still in there? Maximized profits arent about trying to eke every single scrap out of something, unless its a super rare and highly valuable object. If its low value and exists everywhere, take the time to skip the last little scraps of things in the name of maximized gain from a single roid, and think in terms of mining efficiency.

If CCP wanted to make mining so easy a monkey could do it, they would've had mining lasers "intelligently" stop when there's no ore left already, or better yet, move the mining laser automatically to the next targeted roid.

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices
Iain Cariaba
#16 - 2015-05-01 01:24:42 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Tiddle Jr wrote:

(350m3 total cycle timer) / (180 sec total cycle timer) = m3/per second.
(53m3 of roid left) / (m3/per second) = success!

If i understand you correctly and you want to know when to stop your strip miner and don't waste doing full cycle while there are only 53m3 left in targeted roid.

Since when eve considered an easy layback process?

That is fighting the UI. It's not 'difficulty' to fight the UI, it's bad design, or at least design that can be improved.
Player decisions & thinking should be interesting and tactical, not doing a maths exam constantly.

Being asked to do some simple arithmetic is not fighting the UI. Having to learn your career is not bad design. With a little practice, you quickly get to the point where you look at a rock, and instantly know how long it will take to mine it out. We call this learning.

If this is too difficult, perhaps you should go play one of those games where you get everything spoonfed to you, because EvE is not for you.
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2015-05-01 01:42:56 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Tiddle Jr wrote:

(350m3 total cycle timer) / (180 sec total cycle timer) = m3/per second.
(53m3 of roid left) / (m3/per second) = success!

If i understand you correctly and you want to know when to stop your strip miner and don't waste doing full cycle while there are only 53m3 left in targeted roid.

Since when eve considered an easy layback process?

That is fighting the UI. It's not 'difficulty' to fight the UI, it's bad design, or at least design that can be improved.
Player decisions & thinking should be interesting and tactical, not doing a maths exam constantly.

Being asked to do some simple arithmetic is not fighting the UI. Having to learn your career is not bad design. With a little practice, you quickly get to the point where you look at a rock, and instantly know how long it will take to mine it out. We call this learning.

If this is too difficult, perhaps you should go play one of those games where you get everything spoonfed to you, because EvE is not for you.



Pretty much. Fighting the UI is when the UI makes it harder instead if easier to do something.The current UI makes it easier to mine.

I feel like people who say its fighting th UI are prone to using wall hacks in FPS games, because the UI blocks their vision, making it "harder" to "succeed".

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices
Iain Cariaba
#18 - 2015-05-01 18:27:51 UTC
13kr1d1 wrote:
Pretty much. Fighting the UI is when the UI makes it harder instead if easier to do something.The current UI makes it easier to mine.

I feel like people who say its fighting th UI are prone to using wall hacks in FPS games, because the UI blocks their vision, making it "harder" to "succeed".

"Fighting the UI" is simply the latest [reason] given to attempt to justify bad ideas. "Think of the newbies," and "Quality of Life" have been played out as good [reasons], so this is simply the latest FotM for arguing bad ideas.
Solecist Project
#19 - 2015-05-01 19:25:07 UTC
SGT FUNYOUN wrote:
Madd Adda wrote:
you can get this with a calculator and knowledge of fractions

if one 180sec cycle gives you 1200m3, it stands to reason that 90 secs gives you 600m3


True.. but a) we are trying to make this game a bit more accessible to kids and other generations of players... not just math geeks and old grey beards...


Excuse me ?
First grade math is for math geeks and old grey beards ?


Do you know what a division is ?




I understand SGT FUNYOUN's point.
Mining is as interaction and thoughtless as it is.


With this argument, you could come and say that literally all the math you have to do yourself ...
... should actually be done ingame. And this example here in particular is basic math.


But this thread isn't actually about avoiding the maths.




OP wants this, because he would feel satisfaction from it.

Of course that's nice, but it would phase out sooner rather than later.


So it's kind of pointless.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Paranoid Loyd
#20 - 2015-05-01 19:36:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Solecist Project wrote:

Excuse me ?
First grade math is for math geeks and old grey beards ?

Lol, was wondering if you would wander over here, knew that would set you off.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
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