Player Features and Ideas Discussion

CCP would rather look after both. You are far too hung up on the massive superiority of capitals under the current system, and are wearing blinders about what would be and could be under Fozziesov. Stop acting like the only possible "solution" is to nerf capitals into uselessness so it's just a subcap funpark. It is entirely possible to change carriers so they are useful to bring to the battlefield without them being able to dominate the battlefield when you bring a lot of them. But even if they were not changed...

CAPITAL IN LARGE NUMBERS ARE GOING TO BE INCREDIBLY LESS EFFECTIVE IN FOZZIESOV THAN CURRENT, EVEN WITHOUT CHANGES!

Honestly, how difficult is that for people to understand. Capitals are not going to be a problem in Fozziesov. There is no chance of them domination a constellation wide king of the hill match because they are slow as ****, and people who divide their forces get those smaller forces face smashed in one by one.

Also, capital ownership is not rare at all. Not even a bit. There is no tiny elite with capitals hording it over the masses of players without them. In any alliance of decent age, the majority of players own a capital, or could own one anytime they feel like purchasing one. Remember little baby TEST alliance during Fountain? A player alliance comprised of relatively newer players, still able to field fleets of over 100 carriers?

Pretending that people unsubbing capital accounts (And in a lot of cases their subcap accounts too) would only influence a tiny portion of the game is sticking your head deep in the sand, or a willful "Well it doesn't influence me directly, so I'm happy to see everyone else getting the shaft" attitude that is horribly toxic to the game.

P.S: Your plex comments are to put it bluntly, stupid as ****. People buy plex to sell it to people who need it, or people stockpiling it for anticipated future demand. If the people who drive demand by buying the plex off market unsub, and take the large isk income they used to buy it with them, plex prices experience a double whammy. Suddenly not only is there less demand for the plex, but the people who kept the price high by being willing to pay high prices are gone at the same time.

Absolutely no part of that involves suddenly people buying more plexes to sell at lower prices to less demand than they do under the current system.

Agree. With the new jump navigation restrictions + fozziesov, why is it not obvious that capital power projection is no longer multiple constellations at any given moment.

Fozziesov will allow a small, unskilled, and sub-capital alliance a chance in 0.0. I don't see why you see capitals as continuing to be a threat. Final thought, most of the 0.0 playerbase will end their sub if this becomes frigates-and-cruisers online.

Both frigate fights and capital brawls are important to the game. That subcaps should be important is in no way a reason to make capitals useless.

If you have not noticed, Fozziesov has accomplished what you are looking for without any capital nerfs whatsoever. CFC pulled up out of three regions, and then over 500 systems worth of renter space is in the process of being abandoned by former landlords. There is so much space available it's ridiculous. There is no more iron hand of capitals to lord over vast tracts of land.

Fozziesov constellation control changes render the capital blob inefficient in space control even on a constellation level. Phoebe made long distance movements of capitals impossible. Recently fighter assignment was removed to stop use of assigned fighters by subcaps. Signature changes made it less effective to use fighters against subcaps even if directly controlled.

And yet despite all this, people continue to sit there and proclaim over and over and over again that capitals are still overpowered, that the big alliances will continue to oppress the little people, and the only solution is to take what little non triage utility they have remaining, and to remove it. It gets really tiring the way people chant it over and over again like a political talking point, unable to consider anything that would disturb their deeply held conviction that if only CCP would nerf capitals one more time they would suddenly start rolling in the lap of luxury without the big bad alliances holding them down.

P.S: My entire time in EVE is basically being on the losing end of the war over and over and over again. I have been driven out of what seems like half the regions in EVE at this point. And during this entire time there has always been mid-small alliances and coalitions scattered around, primarily in less desirable or NPC space.

Fozziesov is going to allow a ton more people and smaller groups out into nullsec to establish space, that is true.

And when they run into long established alliances, they are going to get smashed, because running and defending an alliance is work. It takes time and effort to build up knowledge, experience, funds, to train FC's, run alliance services, to get your pilots used to responding quickly to FC commands and not ******* it up.

I look forward to to finding out what people blame then instead of capitals. Or maybe they will continue to complain about capitals despite what is going to be relatively limited use of them. Critical thinking not exactly being the strong suite of most of the "Nerf capitals even further" crowd in this thread.



Do it. That people with capital and supercap alts plex those accounts far in far greater proportion to the rest of the playerbase is not really a question. Go around asking people with supercaps and you will find it's not uncommon to leave them unsubbed during times when they are not needed. It's a bit of a running joke that the number of subscribed accounts in PL jumps by 50% in hours each time a major supercap brawl happens as they all go replex extra supercap alts.

I'll personally say I own four accounts, two I pay with cash, two I plex on and off, allowing them to run out when I don't need them. Unsurprisingly, the two accounts I plex are the capital only alts and the cyno alts accounts.

I really want to see the sort of mental gymnastics required to say that when demand drops sharply, somehow the number of people buying them to sell increases.

There's nothing wrong with Pilots wanting a different role for their ship, especially when the old role becomes obsolete. Like someone said earlier, they did the same thing for the old mining frigates and cruisers after the ore variants took over. Remade ten into logistics ships which was a drastic improvement in my eyes.

I think we need to stop looking at capital rebalance in the light of super capital ships being rare. The fact is that the days to preventt supercapital proliferation have long since passed.

.Everyone accepts that super capitals was a stupid idea but yet no one is willing to part with thier silly end game toy. What needs to happen is a complete redesign of capital ships in general and a redesign of super capitals ships to make them just capital ships or in the case of the titan a moveable outpost that gets renamed to the mothership.

. I would propose making current carriers pocket carriers or light carriers. They would loose the ability to use fighters but have bonus to gekco's. They would have reduced hp and loose the RR bonus but stil retain tge triage.

. .Super carriers would now become fleet carriers where they would gain about 50% extra hp as a standard carrier today.

Pilots who' have super caiers will get reinbured in capital components relative to the amount of hp and damage lost to compensate for the new price.

Fleet carriers will be aloud to use fighters and fighter bombers and the use of triage or siege. If you want to use fighter bombers you use a siege module.

The triage moduel will get a bonus to RR as the fleet carrier will not get a native bonus to RR or range.

'' Fighter and fighter bombers will now get limited fittings such as 3 high slots and 5 mix of mid and low example:

Ammar fighter: 3 high slots 1 mid 4 low. also there would be a new slot for pilot.

FIghters have pilots in them trust me zoom in next time. So the pilot should be the bonus for the fighter acting like a null bonud on a ship. Example Fighter pilot A has a bonus of 5% per level to small pulse lasers.

'' '' Dreadnaughts get a booost. the damage bonus is now removed from the siege moduel
and built into the hull bonus. But when not in siege dreads will get the Titan tracking penilty meaning if you wan to blap you go into siege. This will give dreads two roles. One as a high damage anti capital ship that can get RR and Two a blappy anti bs ship that cant get RR.

'' ''THis leaves titans. Titans were the worst thing brougt into the game. They are no longer war ships. THey are now motherships that are pretty much mobile outposts. once anchored the mothership will act as a destructable outpost and be subject to fozzie sov mechanics but when you caputer the mothership its a loot pinyata with a km. The MOthership takes one hour to anchor and can only be unanchored when its not in reinforce mode or in a fozzie sov capture event

I propose the idea that supers don't actually change. In the current meta they are useless, but the nature of the change is not a rebalance but a repurposing.

If we are going to change that much about them, I propose they not be changed and rather new ships that can fit the current meta be added.

Why is this? Because the ships still serve as a show of military might. They are fearsome on the battlefield and demand a presence. I propose minimal changes/rebalancing on current supers while introducing new either capital and or super capital ships that work better in the current meta.

Their direct counter will now be the old supers capable of taking down these newer ships with relative ease or provide a sub cap fleet with the means to do so easier. This way titans can simply be rebalanced rather then entirely repurposed while adding new ships to the game having a counter already in place. This also lifts restrictions of what we think a titan can do as opposed to a new ship entirely being able to do whatever we need it to.

Plus this means more spaceship, everyone loves more spaceship.

Are you kidding, plexing will go up, the mats needed to build everything went up on T1 goods meaning miners will be making more isk if they follow build requirements and mine those ores in an increased demand. Higher prices for all T1 ships to be expected.

Absolutely correct.

Caps are in a fine place as they are now, I don't believe there is a need to change them, but Supers...well I have no clue why anyone would want to fly a coffin anyways.

Yeap, I can't do anything but agree with you...
The only thing is that it's hard to start making suggestions on what should be regulated before the patch has been deployed. It does sound like craziness to me... wait to see the effects first and then argue on what was done poorly and needs fixing.

As for cap pilots again..... that's the way it is with patches and MMOs. Sad but true. This too has has been done to me, in other areas I have invested and took a blow with a patch (in some cases I didn't even get the chance to make up for the training time investment). It happens all the time with big changes. I know I am getting annoying but still these changes benefit more people than not.... I doubt it is the other way around.

As for CCP, you are right! The do try to impliment changes one step at a time and measure the effects they have on their audiance and the game mechanics. The jump fatigue was one such step and slowly we are taking more and more steps towards the final outcome for supercaps. It's not nerf after nerf, it's small steps towards the complete change.

I like how virtually everyone who wants to further gut supers and titans are in noob corps. Please tell me your experiences flying these shps. And no, watching Youtube of them does not count. You want them removed becauze you are jealous and will never own one. Simple as that. And I am sorry thar your noob corp cannot hold the field against players wbo have accumulated wealth over ten years of playing this game. No, little noob, I am sorry you were late to the game. This is not WoW.

Here's my take on the current Cap/Supercap/Titan setup.

Caps Dreadnought & Carrier

Dreadnought Roles Currently:

• Anti-Capital
• Anti-Sub Capital (with support)
• Anti-Structure
• Low/Null Sec Entry Tier Capital

Carrier Roles Currently:

• Suitcase/Moving Van
• Big Ishtar with hideously effective remote repair that scales in a non-linear fashion
• Triage - force multiplier/sacrificial bait carrier for small gangs and large alliances alike
• Effective Null Sec NPC killer

Issues Arisen - Carrier

• Longer Training Time for Full Functionality
• Revenue Generator
• Utility Uses outside of Combat
• Useful in K-Space and J-Space equally

Issues Arisen - Dreadnought

• Entry Level Capital
• Specialized role
• PvP restricted in K-Space
• PvE/PvP in J-Space as a necessity in C5 & C6 (PVP in any class that you build them in)
• Limited to 0 Utility

K-Space Only Issues:
Super Carriers Do Dreadnought Work But Better (excluding Starbases for the moment)
Titans relegated to killing Super Carriers and Head shotting carriers and dreadnoughts. Additional role of bridging currently restricted to 5LY range.

Garage Dooring Now removed!

The Problem - Super Carriers do dread work better - harder to tackle and have 10x the EHP
They maintain the ability to maneuver and GTFO aligning in a single MWD cycle

The problem is role overlap and eclipsing of the role.

Dreadnought advantage: Cheaper by about 10x Entry Level Capital
Super Carrier Advantage: More Useful in all situations except shooting a tower - still useful for incapacitating modules extremely fast as towers cannot hold them on grid.

Will New Structures have a counter to supers? Like a HIC like module that reaches out to 250km with a targeted infinite point?
If so - Keep them as they are with damage and give them an ability to boost fleet with wormhole bonuses like Magnetar. Don't allow FB use while giving command bonuses. Add additional 4%/level resists to primary defense by race when in command mode. Disallow the fitting of propulsion modules since they are immune to Ewar anyhow.

Dreads - Good as they are except the rev that needs a rebalance
Carriers - fighters totally no OP (sarcasm); utility is fine; Triage needs a boost - Chimera capacitor especially; Pantheon/SlowCat is fine as it is.
SuperCarrier - Force a choice between boosting and damage and giving it an additional role is fine
Titan - Counters Super Carrier - Should be able to open a portal from either end (no cyno required) to move sub-capital forces
That is Titans should be able to link their bridging modules like Bridges are linked in sov space.

What is needed:
A new class of Super - The Mothership

The SC used to be a MS but a true MS should offer limited station services.

Size - Outpost
Can Jump To Cyno: Yes
Becomes Temp Station with Repair/Refit & CloneVat/Bay services: Yes
How? Bastion Module (or something like it) consuming small amounts of strontium. Transforms physically to resemble a station of some sort. Docking allowed.
HP: Titan HP while mobility mode engaged: Outpost HP while anchored - no RF timers and no vulnerability to Entosis Modules
Offensive Ability - Fighter Bomber and Fighter Bays (useful in mobility or station mode)
Augmented Doomsday: DD as Titan but only when in Station Mode (immobile) - Same 10 minute cycle time
Can Cloak: No cloak nor propulsion modules can be fit
Immune to EWAR in all modes

Cost to Construct - (32-50Bn)

Purpose - Spearhead of an invasion force - allows sov force to contest and provide a logistical hub.
Hangar Space - Fleet Hangar of 100,000 m3 - No Corp or personal hangars: Repair and refit only from fleet hangar or personal ship cargo.

Cannot Jump while Pilots docked including those logged off. Pilots that DC or log off will be ejected into space in their current ship. Packaged ships can be stored in the Fleet Hangar. Un-packaged ships are ejected into space if the pilot is not present and logged in.

Also I drew some pictures because why not right? Yes they're crap quality but it gives you an idea.