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CCP - End Highsec Incursions

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Mario Putzo
#441 - 2015-04-28 18:02:11 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
[
We dont want the best option to be in highsec for income, we want to have a reason to be out in null.


You will have. Sov Index baby. CCP is giving you your reason in a couple months. Be patient.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#442 - 2015-04-28 18:04:16 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
[
We dont want the best option to be in highsec for income, we want to have a reason to be out in null.


You will have. Sov Index baby. CCP is giving you your reason in a couple months. Be patient.


We have no info so right now we will continue to hammer home the message that fozziesov will fail if the rewards are not there.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#443 - 2015-04-28 18:10:05 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
[
We dont want the best option to be in highsec for income, we want to have a reason to be out in null.


You will have. Sov Index baby. CCP is giving you your reason in a couple months. Be patient.


And it will fail, because it doesn't address the same issue that doomed the anom nerf I linked: It makes more sense for an individual to make isk in safety. YOU actually suggest this, don't change now lol.

A big part of why some don't understand what's going on is misguided anti-null prejudice. It's actually funny, because they people denying the imbalance are the ones getting shafted, null types have adapted to the imbalance by learning how to afk in null on alts while making the good isk elsewhere (including incursions), all while various high sec markets get depressed save for the select few incursion runners ...

Which leads to the most supreme Irony. If CCP fixes the imbalances, everyone one wins. If they maintain the status quo, NULL SEC wins (via null alts in incursions, FW and doing low sec lvl 5s with pre-posistioned carriers, while still being able to rent out null space to nub renters who will, come June, buff our defensive indexes for us....for FREE). TwistedTwisted

It's sad that some of y'all can't see it, if you did you'd be on the right side.
Mario Putzo
#444 - 2015-04-28 18:15:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
baltec1 wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
[
We dont want the best option to be in highsec for income, we want to have a reason to be out in null.


You will have. Sov Index baby. CCP is giving you your reason in a couple months. Be patient.


We have no info so right now we will continue to hammer home the message that fozziesov will fail if the rewards are not there.


"We don't know anything concrete, so instead of offering suggestion in F+I to improve the new NS, Im going to whine in a thread opposed to HS Incursions"

If you want better for NS, go post in any number of the threads CCP put up asking for players opinions on how stuff should change going forward, if you think NS needs more PVE related income, go suggest that.

They have already improved production, they have already improved mining, it stands to reason they will be open to discussion on improving PVE aspects as well. Im sure you will have a much easier time convincing them of NS shortfalls than <1% of the EVE population making bank in HS at any given time, being unfair.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#445 - 2015-04-28 18:18:43 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:


"We don't know anything concrete, so instead of offering suggestion in F+I to improve the new NS, Im going to whine in a thread opposed to HS Incursions"


Spoke to the devs directly and have been posting what we would need for years now in all areas of relevance.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#446 - 2015-04-28 18:21:34 UTC
i dont know why you would oppose this, you said its not about the isk so removing nullbears from incursions would suit you you more, wait times would decrease significantly and you can run incursions till your little hearts content Cool

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#447 - 2015-04-28 18:26:30 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
[
We dont want the best option to be in highsec for income, we want to have a reason to be out in null.


You will have. Sov Index baby. CCP is giving you your reason in a couple months. Be patient.


We have no info so right now we will continue to hammer home the message that fozziesov will fail if the rewards are not there.


So to prove that point they will go destroy all the IHUB's in Provi, the one area where null sec actually works, then yell hysterically see its broken, Incursions give too much ISK, levels 4's are too safe etc. ad nauseum... Dracvlad yawns and hopes that the CCP under its current management sees though the bull put out by one segment of its player base...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#448 - 2015-04-28 18:36:01 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
[
We dont want the best option to be in highsec for income, we want to have a reason to be out in null.


You will have. Sov Index baby. CCP is giving you your reason in a couple months. Be patient.


We have no info so right now we will continue to hammer home the message that fozziesov will fail if the rewards are not there.


So to prove that point they will go destroy all the IHUB's in Provi, the one area where null sec actually works, then yell hysterically see its broken, Incursions give too much ISK, levels 4's are too safe etc. ad nauseum... Dracvlad yawns and hopes that the CCP under its current management sees though the bull put out by one segment of its player base...


Translation: I am powerless, dear Icelandic God, I hope someone else (CCP) does something about this, because I can't be arsed to go help Provi marshal an actual defense.

his is the only reasons Goons roll over everything now. At least I've been actually fighting them.
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#449 - 2015-04-28 18:41:13 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


Translation: I am powerless, dear Icelandic God, I hope someone else (CCP) does something about this, because I can't be arsed to go help Provi marshal an actual defense.

his is the only reasons Goons roll over everything now. At least I've been actually fighting them.


This is even touchin my old withered heart

Can I stand back and watch Provi Polandise?

Should I send the fams into the grinder as the Supers close in all around?

Decisions decisions
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#450 - 2015-04-28 18:44:58 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
[
We dont want the best option to be in highsec for income, we want to have a reason to be out in null.


You will have. Sov Index baby. CCP is giving you your reason in a couple months. Be patient.


We have no info so right now we will continue to hammer home the message that fozziesov will fail if the rewards are not there.


So to prove that point they will go destroy all the IHUB's in Provi, the one area where null sec actually works, then yell hysterically see its broken, Incursions give too much ISK, levels 4's are too safe etc. ad nauseum... Dracvlad yawns and hopes that the CCP under its current management sees though the bull put out by one segment of its player base...


Translation: I am powerless, dear Icelandic God, I hope someone else (CCP) does something about this, because I can't be arsed to go help Provi marshal an actual defense.

his is the only reasons Goons roll over everything now. At least I've been actually fighting them.


You fighting the Goons, another one of your fantasies...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#451 - 2015-04-28 21:08:14 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:

So to prove that point they will go destroy all the IHUB's in Provi



Any potential burning of provi (one of the most poor areas of null) has literally nothing at all to do with the subject of this thread.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#452 - 2015-04-28 22:15:06 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:

So to prove that point they will go destroy all the IHUB's in Provi, the one area where null sec actually works


Ha ha, what? Are we talking about the same Provi? The nightmarishly convoluted, pants on head rules enforced solely by CVA's whiny attempts at social pressure?

Provi, and it's hand wringing, limp wristed proponents, is one of the game's biggest jokes.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#453 - 2015-04-28 23:12:19 UTC
Kaldi Tsukaya wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Kaldi Tsukaya wrote:
^^ok.

As to the OP, incursion income is out of whack in HS, related to other activities.
I would increase the risk, and leave income potential at the current levels.
Remove Concord response in incursion systems. Let the players dictate the risk levels.


then you might as well go to lowsec.


honestly most players risk billion isk+ ships to run incursions, but if they don't ever lose them then I guess that isn't much of a risk. but that risk gets hard to quantify as not losing a ship depends on other players doing their role.

most of my incursion experience was running VGs at off peak hours, and as far as that goes I'd rather just run lv4 missions. maybe these days the communities are better and you can do HQs/Assaults or whatever you do at more hours so that would be one thing, but also that HQs have a double? payout of VGs.

and then there are scouts which got "buffed" but apparently to a state where they are useless.


I have yet to ever ask anything be "nerfed", especially incomes. In a way, this would be asking for a "buff" to PvP, by removing the NPC oversight during (sigh) an NPC event.

Why not throw in the Drifters/Sleepers, and belt rats too and make it an NPC fest, and we can all sit around and watch the NPC's fight each other. And then fight each other to scoop up the loot drops...Roll

Less NPCs all around, it is supposed to be PvP is it not? Or maybe I joined EvE for all the wrong reasons....?
Sighs...


one persons buff to pvp is another persons nerf to income. Lowsec incursions get better payouts as a compensation for the additional risk, and well I'm not so sure how often they actually get run. Hell I've seen people complain 0.0 incursions aren't worth doing either.

and just because some people are doing PVE here, doesn't mean there aren't people doing pvp there. as much as some people want pvp everywhere all the time, there are plenty of people who don't, and I'm okay with that.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#454 - 2015-04-28 23:45:47 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
[
We dont want the best option to be in highsec for income, we want to have a reason to be out in null.


You will have. Sov Index baby. CCP is giving you your reason in a couple months. Be patient.


We have no info so right now we will continue to hammer home the message that fozziesov will fail if the rewards are not there.


that has been my main issue with 0.0 for as long as I've been playing. It never felt like it was worth it to be in null as an individual, Ratting/anoms feel constricting to me. If more than a few people want to be active a system can't support that. Sure when you are part of a blue doughnut empire you can just switch systems. I just don't understand why they haven't added any group PVE for null. I want to play with people! plus if a fight comes along I want to be in some sort of position to take the fight rather than have half a dozen people scattered over a constellation and the best move being safe up.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
SilentAsTheGrave
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#455 - 2015-04-29 00:12:12 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
[
We dont want the best option to be in highsec for income, we want to have a reason to be out in null.


You will have. Sov Index baby. CCP is giving you your reason in a couple months. Be patient.


We have no info so right now we will continue to hammer home the message that fozziesov will fail if the rewards are not there.


"We don't know anything concrete, so instead of offering suggestion in F+I to improve the new NS, Im going to whine in a thread opposed to HS Incursions"

If you want better for NS, go post in any number of the threads CCP put up asking for players opinions on how stuff should change going forward, if you think NS needs more PVE related income, go suggest that.

They have already improved production, they have already improved mining, it stands to reason they will be open to discussion on improving PVE aspects as well. Im sure you will have a much easier time convincing them of NS shortfalls than <1% of the EVE population making bank in HS at any given time, being unfair.

It's baltec1. Did you actually expect anything but illogical thoughts to escape his mouth?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#456 - 2015-04-29 00:17:28 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
[
We dont want the best option to be in highsec for income, we want to have a reason to be out in null.


You will have. Sov Index baby. CCP is giving you your reason in a couple months. Be patient.


We have no info so right now we will continue to hammer home the message that fozziesov will fail if the rewards are not there.


that has been my main issue with 0.0 for as long as I've been playing. It never felt like it was worth it to be in null as an individual, Ratting/anoms feel constricting to me. If more than a few people want to be active a system can't support that. Sure when you are part of a blue doughnut empire you can just switch systems. I just don't understand why they haven't added any group PVE for null. I want to play with people! plus if a fight comes along I want to be in some sort of position to take the fight rather than have half a dozen people scattered over a constellation and the best move being safe up.


The problem of lack of group content is completely related to the omnipresence of alts. Why would you do something with someone when you can do it by yourself? Your alt is pretty much just as good as anyone at doing most PvE in EVE. Anything you can "team up with friends" to do can be done with alts too and then you keep the whole proceedings instead of just a fraction of it.
Kaldi Tsukaya
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#457 - 2015-04-29 00:37:34 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:

one persons buff to pvp is another persons nerf to income. Lowsec incursions get better payouts as a compensation for the additional risk, and well I'm not so sure how often they actually get run. Hell I've seen people complain 0.0 incursions aren't worth doing either.

and just because some people are doing PVE here, doesn't mean there aren't people doing pvp there. as much as some people want pvp everywhere all the time, there are plenty of people who don't, and I'm okay with that.


Everyone I know in lowsec would rather NOT have incursions there, it just spoils their PvP battles.Ugh

One last try at compromise:

My Momma always had a wooden spoon as a weapon.
Give the Sansha Momma a Lux Kontos.
And somebody done made Momma mad...X
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#458 - 2015-04-29 00:58:51 UTC
/signed, highsec incursion ISK printing is a cancer, and EVE needs some chemotherapy.

The Ishtar was overpowered in starship combat PVP, and it was (correctly) nerfed to bring it into line. Sucks a bit for me as I like flying the Ishtar, but the right decision was made for game balance.

Highsec incursions are considerably more unbalanced in ISK generation PVP than the Ishtar ever was in starship combat PVP.



It is possible to inflict damage on incursion runners with ganks, but the presence of acceleration gates and flaws in the Sansha AI provide a level of protection to incursion grinders that is not commensurate with the income stream.

A fix to the AI issues would bring quite a bit more balance into the equation. A change to make Sansha rats ignore EWAR (including warp scrambling) unless it is aimed at them would make ganking incursion grinders more viable.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
d0cTeR9
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#459 - 2015-04-29 03:02:40 UTC
Otso Bakarti wrote:
Please, make others' enterprise less profitable, or at least make mine more so! It's only fair!
Though, I don't do anything remotely like these other people, and never go where they are, the
very thought that they're there making ISK just bugs me. So, CCP, take your million dollar machine
and turn it toward my inclinations and personal preferences. You know the Great Gaming God is on my side!


/Thread Lol

Been around since the beginning.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#460 - 2015-04-29 05:26:49 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
The problem of lack of group content is completely related to the omnipresence of alts. Why would you do something with someone when you can do it by yourself? Your alt is pretty much just as good as anyone at doing most PvE in EVE. Anything you can "team up with friends" to do can be done with alts too and then you keep the whole proceedings instead of just a fraction of it.


I hardly think alts are the problem when you only need 1-2 other accounts for the hardest of 0.0 PVE activities. I think some 10/10s are even soloable these days. IMO it is hard to call anoms anything other than solo activities. I do think it is a good thing to have solo activities as sometimes players have limited time to get on and need something they can quickly jump in and out of, but they should for sure have something better to do as a group when they have the time. When you can ISBox incursions then yes imo there is a problem, but CCP seems to have dealt with that. and AFAIK there isn't any 0.0 content like that that is readily available.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter