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CCP - End Highsec Incursions

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Solecist Project
#361 - 2015-04-28 13:20:14 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
because Jenn is in the top group, she


Is not a she, Jenn is a big huge middle aged black man.

While I'm all for consequences and thus addressing people with their char's sex ...
... why do you even know that? Shocked

Sheeeeeeesh ......... xD

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#362 - 2015-04-28 13:20:59 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:

Why would you use a bling fitted carrier?


Why won't list those "number of ways" you were talking about to attack incursions fleets successfully?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#363 - 2015-04-28 13:21:52 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
because Jenn is in the top group, she


Is not a she, Jenn is a big huge middle aged black man.

While I'm all for consequences and thus addressing people with their char's sex ...
... why do you even know that? Shocked

Sheeeeeeesh ......... xD


Because I pay attention? His post history doesn't exactly try to hide it.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#364 - 2015-04-28 13:21:52 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Lets get to the meat of this issue ratting carriers are cheaper then bling incursion boats designed to win competitions against other bling boats.


are bling incursion boats cheaper than bling ratting carriers? that is the question


Why would you use a bling fitted carrier?


to maximise your isk/hr, same as what they do in machs in highsec?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#365 - 2015-04-28 13:23:23 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


You cant gank a battleship fleet.


I never said you could gank the fleet. The recent smartbomb "event" demonstrated it. That still does nto mean you can't at least have an impact on it's members. You definitely won't stop them dead in the water but you can slow them down of cut their income. If they lose a few bling ship in a row, you can bet some people will start to get away from the most efficient fit for tankier ones because even if they are raking major dough, they still hate losing ships while doing it. Every mods they swap for more tank if an efficiency mod they lose for making that sweet 200+ mill isk/hours. Everybody want their vindi with 2 webs but the pilot might fly only one with an extenders if 4 ship has been killed recently with the gankers still in systems. If you do enough damage, you might even afk cloak them a bit.

I say again. You will not stop them. Not under the current rules of the game. If that is your goal, the required amount of effort is more than likely WAY too high to be worth it. Kaarous was asking for way to disrupt them, I provided just that and even said they were mostly not very effective because that's how things are.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#366 - 2015-04-28 13:23:33 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Lets get to the meat of this issue ratting carriers are cheaper then bling incursion boats designed to win competitions against other bling boats.


are bling incursion boats cheaper than bling ratting carriers? that is the question


Why would you use a bling fitted carrier?


to maximise your isk/hr, same as what they do in machs in highsec?


Well I use a T2 fitted BS to run level 4's for the same reason...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#367 - 2015-04-28 13:25:13 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Isn't it always nice how these people make your points for you. It's autopiloting forum style lol.

But yea, that's the whole damn point, this guy claims to make a certain amount of isk in NULL (no security) space not understanding that what he is saying PROVES the imbalance he and his ilk are arguing doesn't exist lol (which is priceless).

(can't remember if it was him or another guy, probably someone else, but that guy claimed he was making 110 mil per hour in null...using a Carrier to rat....like Dracvlad he didn't understand that he was making my point, because you need a CAPITAL ship iun NULL sec to make 10 mil per hour LESS than the high sec incursion runner who may even be in a 150 mil logi ship lol)

This game has a 'risk reward scheme'. Based on it, you should NOT be able to make "no security space" levels of income while being protected by "High security space" mechanics, period. I don't know what CCP can do at this point, but given the track record (almost 3 years to fix the high sec lvl 5 bug that they knew about immediately after one of their patches caused the bug in the 1st place), I don't anticipate it will be anything any time soon.

Some of us are doing the best thing that can be done: Incursioning our asses off in high sec. This not only fills our grubby little null sec coffers, it denies those spots to high sec incursion runners who want to make that easy isk. Ironic to again see high sec types defending a status quo that screws them lol.


Jenn makes me laugh, started going on about using a BS to do anoms in 0.0 in another thread that made me laugh a lot.

Lets get to the meat of this issue ratting carriers are cheaper then bling incursion boats designed to win competitions against other bling boats. It is a tool to do the job, and if you know how to operate a carrier you can do it fairly securely, I for one never used sentries when carrier ratting, I was always aligned to one of a number of safe POS's, my vulnerability was simply that point in time when I first warped into the anom, but that was easy to deal with in terms of having scouts next door to check for threats that could get on you before you could align. Just because some people are stupid and give easy kills does not mean everyone does.

Jenn also thinks that sitting around to get in a fleet is nothing, because Jenn is in the top group, she always maximises the ISK per hour on incursions and its just sad to see the continuing misinformation she puts out because the numbers are based on perfect numbers, no competitions and no waiting around to get a fleet or waiting for people to come back from being AFK.

Its just so boring to lie like this all the damn time.

Yes Jenn, carriers are capital ships, but they are not exactly expensive are they, and yes they take time to get into, yes so what...



The lengths you go to deny the truth border on pathological lol.

Who is talking about cost? A Carrier takes way longer to train for, and the reward for that extra training time is less isk per hour than you make in a sub cap protected by concord (with the exception of lvl 5 blitzing, which makes way more than incursions).

Also, no one is talking about perfect numbers. Null/low/WH PVE gets disrupted more often than incursions do (you know this, you COMPLAINED about this with your failed Stain venture). Under average circumstances , you make more in high sec incursions than you should, and you know this too because you see people doing incursions (even people like me, who have access to sov null).

I get it, admitting you are wrong is hard, especially when the guy that's right is someone you dislike (if you ever end up being right about something, you can bet I'll grit the hell out of my teeth before being forced to admit that you are right....not that this is ever likely to happen lol, just sayin). But the imbalance exist, you prove it with your own post detailing how much isk per hour you made using a long train capital ship, and your denial of facts you help prove are simply unworthy of someone who is probably an adult.

Go day sir hashtag WillyWonka.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#368 - 2015-04-28 13:26:42 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
because Jenn is in the top group, she


Is not a she, Jenn is a big huge middle aged black man.

While I'm all for consequences and thus addressing people with their char's sex ...
... why do you even know that? Shocked

Sheeeeeeesh ......... xD


Because I pay attention? His post history doesn't exactly try to hide it.


I'm not just a member of Brothers with White Girl Avatars, I'm the President.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#369 - 2015-04-28 13:27:36 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Congrats on demonstrating that you can make a whopping 20 mil per hour more (in the deadliest space EVE has) than a shiny incursion fleet memebr (180 mil per hour) can in the single most protected kind of space EVE has...which proves that the imbalances we speak of are real.

Like i said, this discussion is like autopiloting, people prove my point without me even having to try lol.


To be wholly accurate, WH are only dangerous if you don't know what you're doing//are not paying attention. The only real risk is if your hole is seeded and frankly, that tends to be uncommon.

Anyway as I said, I'm on the fence about it, there are many variables in play - and quite honestly envy/denial is rife on each side of this argument, tends to create a nasty mix.
Solecist Project
#370 - 2015-04-28 13:28:51 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Wait, are we really comparing afktar income to a fleet operation of multiple billions of battleships?

Really?

Reaaaaaaaally?

Also, one can make 200m/hour clean in a mere C3 with yourself and an alt...incursions...pfffffft


We're comparing the personal income potential of people using ships in unprotected (except by human effort) space to the higher income of people using ships in npc protected space (with the additional protection of a dedicated squad of tech2 logistics ships.

We're comparing the higher personal/individual income in NPC protected space that is 'free' for everyone to the lower or barley equal incomes in space you have to WORK for (null), space that is more dangerous (low) and space that is the MOST dangerous (WHs)

If you actually read the thread, you will see my own direct comparison.. Machariel Hull flown by me, 2 bil isk fit, flying with The Valhalla Project and making almost twice the isk per hour as the same ship in null sec with exclusive (no one else in system) access to the best anomalies (forsaken hubs, havens and sanctums). I'll let wormhole and low sec guys make their own comparisons.

The ONLY think more broken than high sec incursions are Faction Warfare Missions (which I also do, hell, the FW corp I'm in actually has the word FARMING in it's name lol) where being able to pilot a Stealth Bomber (purifier in my case, it's best against the amarr rats) means you can make more isk in an hour than you can in incursions and anomalies combined...


Quote:
Also, one can make 200m/hour clean in a mere C3 with yourself and an alt...incursions...pfffffft


Congrats on demonstrating that you can make a whopping 20 mil per hour more (in the deadliest space EVE has) than a shiny incursion fleet memebr (180 mil per hour) can in the single most protected kind of space EVE has...which proves that the imbalances we speak of are real.

Like i said, this discussion is like autopiloting, people prove my point without me even having to try lol.

Diana Kim told me she makes 800mill in three hours with incursions.
And she has no reason to lie, she farms them only to buy ships.

Active caldari militia member,
prominent roleplayer.

That was last year, I think late summer.

I am losing track of how much one cwn actually earn.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#371 - 2015-04-28 13:29:06 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Kaarous was asking for way to disrupt them


Actually, I was still just making fun of Dracvlad's repeated claims that there are "numerous ways" that "anyone can think of".

So I'd like to hear about those. But since they're imaginary and he was just blowing smoke to try and defend the golden goose of highsec, I know he won't deliver.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#372 - 2015-04-28 13:29:24 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


You cant gank a battleship fleet.


I never said you could gank the fleet. The recent smartbomb "event" demonstrated it. That still does nto mean you can't at least have an impact on it's members. You definitely won't stop them dead in the water but you can slow them down of cut their income. If they lose a few bling ship in a row, you can bet some people will start to get away from the most efficient fit for tankier ones because even if they are raking major dough, they still hate losing ships while doing it. Every mods they swap for more tank if an efficiency mod they lose for making that sweet 200+ mill isk/hours. Everybody want their vindi with 2 webs but the pilot might fly only one with an extenders if 4 ship has been killed recently with the gankers still in systems. If you do enough damage, you might even afk cloak them a bit.

I say again. You will not stop them. Not under the current rules of the game. If that is your goal, the required amount of effort is more than likely WAY too high to be worth it. Kaarous was asking for way to disrupt them, I provided just that and even said they were mostly not very effective because that's how things are.


You wont even scratch them while you lose tens of billions trying to kill them.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#373 - 2015-04-28 13:30:45 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

I'm not just a member of Brothers with White Girl Avatars, I'm the President.


BWGA? Need to think of a better acronym.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#374 - 2015-04-28 13:31:20 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Lets get to the meat of this issue ratting carriers are cheaper then bling incursion boats designed to win competitions against other bling boats.


are bling incursion boats cheaper than bling ratting carriers? that is the question


Why would you use a bling fitted carrier?


to maximise your isk/hr, same as what they do in machs in highsec?


Someone doing a bad investment is not a reason for you too to make one... I was able to accept running bling when I ran incursion because you were able to get to a point where it gave an advantage especially if the whole fleet was not bling'd out. The second web on a vindi really nice to have when some of the short range dudes are in navy mega or similar boat but running dual webs kind of require you to bling out the invulns. High meta MWD is nice to reduce the requirement of cap feed if you somehow can't get your hands on enough Logi V pilots. You are also backed up by logi which reduce the risk of losing that bling. Your solo carrier basicly only count on himself so bling is less wise for the relatively low increase in monetary gain speed.
Mashie Saldana
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#375 - 2015-04-28 13:32:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Mashie Saldana
Well, it's true it got kinda out of hand, back when ISBOXER wasn't banned I was doing incursions with 5 alts, I was earning about 750 mil/hour.

Made more than 100 billion isk in a few months.


Sniff.

How to win EVE
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#376 - 2015-04-28 13:32:28 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


Good god man you are after one of the bling fitted BS...


Which not only sports a large tank but is supported by logistics and a fleet that will open fire back.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#377 - 2015-04-28 13:34:01 UTC
Mashie Saldana wrote:
Well, it's true it got kinda out of hand, back when ISBOXER wasn't banned I was doing incursions with 5 alts, I was earning about 750 mil/hour.

Made more than 100 billion isk in a few months.


Sniff.


You can still do that.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#378 - 2015-04-28 13:35:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Jenn aSide wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Isn't it always nice how these people make your points for you. It's autopiloting forum style lol.

But yea, that's the whole damn point, this guy claims to make a certain amount of isk in NULL (no security) space not understanding that what he is saying PROVES the imbalance he and his ilk are arguing doesn't exist lol (which is priceless).

(can't remember if it was him or another guy, probably someone else, but that guy claimed he was making 110 mil per hour in null...using a Carrier to rat....like Dracvlad he didn't understand that he was making my point, because you need a CAPITAL ship iun NULL sec to make 10 mil per hour LESS than the high sec incursion runner who may even be in a 150 mil logi ship lol)

This game has a 'risk reward scheme'. Based on it, you should NOT be able to make "no security space" levels of income while being protected by "High security space" mechanics, period. I don't know what CCP can do at this point, but given the track record (almost 3 years to fix the high sec lvl 5 bug that they knew about immediately after one of their patches caused the bug in the 1st place), I don't anticipate it will be anything any time soon.

Some of us are doing the best thing that can be done: Incursioning our asses off in high sec. This not only fills our grubby little null sec coffers, it denies those spots to high sec incursion runners who want to make that easy isk. Ironic to again see high sec types defending a status quo that screws them lol.


Jenn makes me laugh, started going on about using a BS to do anoms in 0.0 in another thread that made me laugh a lot.

Lets get to the meat of this issue ratting carriers are cheaper then bling incursion boats designed to win competitions against other bling boats. It is a tool to do the job, and if you know how to operate a carrier you can do it fairly securely, I for one never used sentries when carrier ratting, I was always aligned to one of a number of safe POS's, my vulnerability was simply that point in time when I first warped into the anom, but that was easy to deal with in terms of having scouts next door to check for threats that could get on you before you could align. Just because some people are stupid and give easy kills does not mean everyone does.

Jenn also thinks that sitting around to get in a fleet is nothing, because Jenn is in the top group, she always maximises the ISK per hour on incursions and its just sad to see the continuing misinformation she puts out because the numbers are based on perfect numbers, no competitions and no waiting around to get a fleet or waiting for people to come back from being AFK.

Its just so boring to lie like this all the damn time.

Yes Jenn, carriers are capital ships, but they are not exactly expensive are they, and yes they take time to get into, yes so what...



The lengths you go to deny the truth border on pathological lol.

Who is talking about cost? A Carrier takes way longer to train for, and the reward for that extra training time is less isk per hour than you make in a sub cap protected by concord (with the exception of lvl 5 blitzing, which makes way more than incursions).

Also, no one is talking about perfect numbers. Null/low/WH PVE gets disrupted more often than incursions do (you know this, you COMPLAINED about this with your failed Stain venture). Under average circumstances , you make more in high sec incursions than you should, and you know this too because you see people doing incursions (even people like me, who have access to sov null).

I get it, admitting you are wrong is hard, especially when the guy that's right is someone you dislike (if you ever end up being right about something, you can bet I'll grit the hell out of my teeth before being forced to admit that you are right....not that this is ever likely to happen lol, just sayin). But the imbalance exist, you prove it with your own post detailing how much isk per hour you made using a long train capital ship, and your denial of facts you help prove are simply unworthy of someone who is probably an adult.

Go day sir hashtag WillyWonka.



A carrier training time is irrelevant, its a tool that you train into to maximise your return. And you always talk about perfect numbers when you talk about hisec and imperfect numbers when you talk about null, you are an out and out liar. And when you lose you start throwing in insults or little digs like you did just there, its every time, its the reason I don't like you and I don't hide it. If a complete idiot thinks I am a complete idiot, its a compliment...

EDIT: Seeing as you mentioned that Stain venture the funny thing is you are very much like Aaron, actually its frightening just how alike you are...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#379 - 2015-04-28 13:37:27 UTC
afkalt wrote:


To be wholly accurate, WH are only dangerous if you don't know what you're doing//are not paying attention. The only real risk is if your hole is seeded and frankly, that tends to be uncommon.


Which still makes wormholes infinitely more dangerous than MECHANICALLY PROTECTED HIGH SEC, especially when you have a whole squad of logistics ships with rep range lol.

Quote:

Anyway as I said, I'm on the fence about it, there are many variables in play - and quite honestly envy/denial is rife on each side of this argument, tends to create a nasty mix.


This is also untrue, at least for me. I an a PVE player. CCP created some PVE imbalances that have further bad effects on the rest of the game. Sure, i have a faction warfare farming alt, and an alt that has a 2 bil mach and runs incursions (and yet another alt with 3 carriers in 3 adjacent systems for blitzing lvl 5 missions, which is my best isk maker bar none).

But taking advantage of imbalances don't make things not be imbalanced. A better balance would benefit everyone as i detailed in a post in this thread, but the incursion/high sec protectionist faction denies the very idea, because they are too short sighted to see the benefits (such as how a better balance leads to people living in space they PVE in leading to more pvp loses that lead to higher COCNORD LP values, you used to be able to get 2k isk per LP now it's 1k).

I know from our years of posting together here that you're smarter than that, and all it takes is a tiny bit of thought and effort to see the truth. You aren't like these people, so don't post like them.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#380 - 2015-04-28 13:37:56 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Lets get to the meat of this issue ratting carriers are cheaper then bling incursion boats designed to win competitions against other bling boats.


are bling incursion boats cheaper than bling ratting carriers? that is the question


Why would you use a bling fitted carrier?


to maximise your isk/hr, same as what they do in machs in highsec?


Someone doing a bad investment is not a reason for you too to make one... I was able to accept running bling when I ran incursion because you were able to get to a point where it gave an advantage especially if the whole fleet was not bling'd out. The second web on a vindi really nice to have when some of the short range dudes are in navy mega or similar boat but running dual webs kind of require you to bling out the invulns. High meta MWD is nice to reduce the requirement of cap feed if you somehow can't get your hands on enough Logi V pilots. You are also backed up by logi which reduce the risk of losing that bling. Your solo carrier basicly only count on himself so bling is less wise for the relatively low increase in monetary gain speed.


i didnt say i fly anything bling, when i done incursions i used a low end fit and when i used a carrier it cost me around 2.7bil including everything inside it.

its was comment on how he said a ratting carrier costs less than a bling incursion ship, ofcourse it does, bling the carrier up and no it wont, and ive seen it done plenty of times, but yeah its a bad investment because you will lose it eventually but chances of you losing the mach are slim to nothing because concord protects you so you can easily bling it up and autopilot it around everywhere

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*