EVE General Discussion

This is a myth. Station trading is a pvp activity and as has been shown many times people will take massive losses in this playing that game.

We're comparing the personal income potential of people using ships in unprotected (except by human effort) space to the higher income of people using ships in npc protected space (with the additional protection of a dedicated squad of tech2 logistics ships.

We're comparing the higher personal/individual income in NPC protected space that is 'free' for everyone to the lower or barley equal incomes in space you have to WORK for (null), space that is more dangerous (low) and space that is the MOST dangerous (WHs)

If you actually read the thread, you will see my own direct comparison.. Machariel Hull flown by me, 2 bil isk fit, flying with The Valhalla Project and making almost twice the isk per hour as the same ship in null sec with exclusive (no one else in system) access to the best anomalies (forsaken hubs, havens and sanctums). I'll let wormhole and low sec guys make their own comparisons.

The ONLY think more broken than high sec incursions are Faction Warfare Missions (which I also do, hell, the FW corp I'm in actually has the word FARMING in it's name lol) where being able to pilot a Stealth Bomber (purifier in my case, it's best against the amarr rats) means you can make more isk in an hour than you can in incursions and anomalies combined...




Congrats on demonstrating that you can make a whopping 20 mil per hour more (in the deadliest space EVE has) than a shiny incursion fleet memebr (180 mil per hour) can in the single most protected kind of space EVE has...which proves that the imbalances we speak of are real.

Like i said, this discussion is like autopiloting, people prove my point without me even having to try lol.

List it then, if it actually exists.




If they're making too much money while being too safe, one of those things has to change. Duh.

So how about your cringing justification, then? Go ahead and list it out for us.

Game imbalances are not fixed by telling people to go gank them at a massive loss.

You are hoping for something that won't happen. Some for of disruption have already been listed in this very thread tho. Ganks are possible but with a higher barrier of entry because your target are either small sig mobile logi cruisers or actually tanked BS. You have to plan for the worst case scenario every time as opposed to barge or freighter ganks where you can in the vast majority of case forgo any potential logi helping your target. Alpha is the name of the game but the setup is high.

Another one is infiltration. Getting inside most of the community is not all that hard. The issue is you burn yourself on the first bad move you do unless you have a really good excuse. Purple on purple shooting will usually get you blacklisted real fast because most FC will just ask you why you don't run PvE content with safety on green now. I've seen people CONCORD themself with safety reds and let me tell you it's absolutely funny how much heat they get for it. Best one was logi's drone on the FC.

Your best bet if you want to cause more disruption with infiltration would technically be logi work in a basilisk/guardian. HQ Otuni spawn are pretty much the only time people expect to risk losing their ship (low probability but if it happens, it's usually on those spawns). The key point is of course to "mess up" and not cap feed the target. IMPORTANT: The chance of this working as still EXTREMELY low because you should not be the only possible cap feed, the ship should still receive some raw reps even if his hardeners got shutdown, his pasive regen between neut cycles might let him cycle his invulns and the more bling your fleet is, the less time sanshas have to burn him down.

Results!!!

1- It works but require more effort than most people seem to be willing to put into it. Not sure why but it is what it is.
2- Yeah sure, let's ask people to chain train incursion running characters to get over the black listing. It's not stupid at all!!! /sarcasm
3- You might pull it off but that's like playing craps and hoping you will win that bet requiring all results to be rolled...

Analysis of results : Disturbing a fleet of logi supported BS is hard. News at 11.

You cant gank a battleship fleet.

Then you are not looking at the big picture.

First, as to trading there is never "0%" risk when you are playing the market. But even if that were true, it wouldn't matter as trading only moves assets between players - it does not put new resources or ISK into the economy. That is a concern on the macro-economic level, but really for this discussion it is unimportant. The problem is that the excessive amount of income incursion runners are earning are keeping players from ever leaving highsec, or worse, leaving their wormhole or nullsec homes to earn money back in highsec under the protection of CONCORD. This diminishes the chances for player conflict in these other spaces.

Can you point out another income-generating activity that has such low risk? Because I can't think of one that has a significant income associated with it as incursions. Trading or scamming might be the closest, but these are pure PvP activities. For PvE income sources, nothing comes close to the large reward to risk ratio as highsec incursions.

There is no reason for someone just looking for quick ISK to seek out risk outside of highsec when incursion income is so high and so safe. Many incursion runners would probably be perfectly happy doing PvE in a more risky environment and providing targets for other players, but they don't bother because they are just following the ISK and currently the best place to make that is in the safety of highsec.

This is not good for the long-term health of the game.

Incursions make much isk because they require much effort, (forming of a semi-large fleet and good-ish ships also dec dodging is possible some effort to convince yourself you are not a coward or something ).
I therefor move to make the ganking of incursion runners equally profitable by means of NPC incursion combatants putting bounties on the incursion runners and paying out the people who gank them. It makes sense game-wise, lore-wise and sounds fun for all, right?

D.



Addendum: I didn't have the heart to reply to this thread with the initial knee-jerk, self serving, bloated bear responses.
However, my faith in EVE players has been restored by some of the people who actually made an effort to argument for/against change en kept an open mind and - equally important- stayed civil.

Is not a she, Jenn is a big huge middle aged black man.

So standard EvE play style then?