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The dangers of hauling

Author
Paranoid Loyd
#21 - 2015-03-30 03:44:46 UTC
Nobody is going to gank a properly fit DST, if you fit it like the dumbass you linked, people will shoot you even if you are empty. There is absolutely no reason to put cargo rigs or expanders on a DST.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Huttan Funaila
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#22 - 2015-04-02 04:11:21 UTC
The only reason to fit cargo expanders on a DST is if you need to deploy structures. Currently you can't deploy from the fleet hanger, so you have to drag your item to the cargohold and deploy from there (supposedly this gets fixed in April). Unless you are deploying large (or capital) ship assembly arrays, there is no reason for anti-tanking your DST that much (and you'll need to replace some of the T2 with ORE expanders to hit 25k). A control tower is 8k m3.
Desert Frog
Doomheim
#23 - 2015-04-02 08:17:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Desert Frog
Feoria Saissore wrote:
Hi all,

I'm feoria, I spend a bit of time here almost every day and I wanted to talk about some dangers I've faced in the past month due to hauling. Over the last month I've had my hauler popped twice leaving a trade hub to go on a run. The first time I should have known that I was falling into a trap when I bought a mod for 2.5 bil and the sell price in jita was 4.5 bil. Greed got me here and the moment I undocked my ship was dust. I've been using an Iteron Mark V as my primary ship since I've yet to make time for training to cloaky transports and freighters. The second time, I thought I was being smart by double wrapping my cargo and I had 2.2 bil worth of mods, equipment and implants. Thankfully, each time, the most valuable loot didn't drop for the pirates who was looking to make some quick isk.

The good news is that I'm not completely bankrupt, but a 4.7 bil drop in isk will hurt anyone. I've learned my lesson about hauling valuable loot from port to port.

Here's a few things that I'll be doing from now on.

1. I refuse to carry anything over 1 bil in the cargo hold.
2. If I need it somewhere, It can go through a courier.
3. Passive Armour tank is superior to Active Shield tank
4. Cloaks are your friend.
5. Don't fly with anything you can't afford to lose (this may need to be rule number 1)


Anyone else care to share hauling tips and tricks, or share stories of getting popped and losing it all.


6. Create insta-undocks at all major trading hubs and other stations you visit frequently. You have a 30-second window of immunity after undocking, as long as you do not activate any modules, target anyone, or move your ship in any direction after undocking. This immunity prevents targeting and bumping. Also, you can still press Ctrl+Space to stop your ship (or click the small minus (-) icon on the HUD) and still retain your invulnerability. Beware that there are a few stations that will kick you outside of docking range, and you will be vulnerable if you try to redock (as a result of changing directions).

To create the undock, get in a MWD-fitted fast frigate like an Atron, and stop your ship immediately after undocking. Once you are completely stopped, fire up the engines and MWD and head out 500-1000km off station. Do not alter direction. Bookmark and smile.

Bedouin of the galactic shipping lanes...

قد البراغيث من ألف الجمال تغزو أولئك الذين فريسة على الضفادع

GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#24 - 2015-04-02 08:30:32 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
Desert Frog wrote:
This immunity prevents targeting and bumping. Also, you can still press Ctrl+Space to stop your ship (or click the small minus (-) icon on the HUD) and still retain your invulnerability.


Does it, though? I always thought otherwise. Smile

o7 to the whole of RF Freight.

(Their ingame channel is "RF Freight", and *cough* freelancers' hauling services can be obtained at "Haulers Channel" - The latter is very active with both freelance couriers and clients Blink)
Desert Frog
Doomheim
#25 - 2015-04-02 08:37:55 UTC
GankYou wrote:
Desert Frog wrote:
This immunity prevents targeting and bumping. Also, you can still press Ctrl+Space to stop your ship (or click the small minus (-) icon on the HUD) and still retain your invulnerability.


Does it, though? I always thought otherwise. Smile

o7 to the whole of RF Freight.

(Their ingame channel is "RF Freight", and *cough* freelancers' hauling services can be obtained at "Haulers Channel" - The latter is very active with both freelance couriers and clients Blink)


Perhaps we need to conduct a friendly test Blink

Bedouin of the galactic shipping lanes...

قد البراغيث من ألف الجمال تغزو أولئك الذين فريسة على الضفادع

GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#26 - 2015-04-02 08:49:50 UTC
Desert Frog wrote:
GankYou wrote:
Desert Frog wrote:
This immunity prevents targeting and bumping. Also, you can still press Ctrl+Space to stop your ship (or click the small minus (-) icon on the HUD) and still retain your invulnerability.


Does it, though? I always thought otherwise. Smile

o7 to the whole of RF Freight.

(Their ingame channel is "RF Freight", and *cough* freelancers' hauling services can be obtained at "Haulers Channel" - The latter is very active with both freelance couriers and clients Blink)


Perhaps we need to conduct a friendly test Blink


I must say that RF Freight posts very competitive prices for Hisec freighter-sized cargo hauling. Big smile
Desert Frog
Doomheim
#27 - 2015-04-03 15:28:47 UTC
Desert Frog wrote:
GankYou wrote:
Desert Frog wrote:
This immunity prevents targeting and bumping. Also, you can still press Ctrl+Space to stop your ship (or click the small minus (-) icon on the HUD) and still retain your invulnerability.


Does it, though? I always thought otherwise. Smile

o7 to the whole of RF Freight.

(Their ingame channel is "RF Freight", and *cough* freelancers' hauling services can be obtained at "Haulers Channel" - The latter is very active with both freelance couriers and clients Blink)


Perhaps we need to conduct a friendly test Blink


Confirmed: merely stopping your ship after undock does not remove the 30-second invulnerability.

Bedouin of the galactic shipping lanes...

قد البراغيث من ألف الجمال تغزو أولئك الذين فريسة على الضفادع

GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#28 - 2015-04-03 19:08:07 UTC
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#29 - 2015-04-06 16:32:42 UTC
Even a Blockade Runner can be fit to survive the alpha-strike from a Tornado. But DST is superior in that realm.

Use insta-dock/undock bookmarks at major hubs.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Peekup Andropov
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2015-04-11 00:19:39 UTC
Thanks for this thread, OP. I got popped recently in my Iteron V by a Vexor.

https://zkillboard.com/kill/45750661/

I fly manual, but it was just too slow to get into warp. For me, that was a very big loss. I could use the help if someone wants to point me to a better fit. Clearly, the stabs were not any help this time and I need to get some rigs.

I will be able to fly a blockade runner in about a month. I'm fairly low skill point still.

Good topic!

Спасибо!
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#31 - 2015-04-11 00:31:48 UTC
You need some resists, damage control, invuln, extender/resist/hull hp rigs. A booster doesn't do much in the 20 seconds they've got to kill you before CONCORD gets them. A couple less Warp Core Stabs wouldn't hurt either.
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#32 - 2015-04-11 06:17:31 UTC
The total volume for the cargo was 10 m3.

Think man. Shocked
Ren Oren
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2015-04-11 18:27:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Ren Oren
Peekup Andropov wrote:
Thanks for this thread, OP. I got popped recently in my Iteron V by a Vexor.

https://zkillboard.com/kill/45750661/

I fly manual, but it was just too slow to get into warp. For me, that was a very big loss. I could use the help if someone wants to point me to a better fit. Clearly, the stabs were not any help this time and I need to get some rigs.

I will be able to fly a blockade runner in about a month. I'm fairly low skill point still.

Good topic!

Спасибо!


Warpstabs are for wartargets, a ganker will not try to stop you from flying away, they will focus on max instant damage

They don't help in ganks, go for max protection.

Overall your best defense is making the gank not worth it (Get a good tank and keep the price of goods under 50 mil, if not lower.)
Herr Esiq
Viziam
#34 - 2015-04-24 11:27:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Herr Esiq
Ren Oren wrote:
Ok as a person who has hauled in high, low, nullsec and wormholes here is my advice

AttentionAttentionAttention GET A BLOCKADE RUNNERShockedShockedShocked, it gets you in and out of a location quick under cover of cloak.

Since highsec doesn't have bubbles or smart bombs its practically uncatchable unless you slip up badly in the wrong place. As long as you NEVER autopilot, cloak after each jump, and have a instant dock/undock you are the safest hauler in Eve...period

Some people argue that it doesn't have a super large cargo (I can get 17000m3 with my set up) but whats the point of having tons of cargo space if you get ganked and lose that cargo? I would rather do 3 round trips and have almost 0 risk, than to have 1 trip that increases my risk of getting ganked tenfold

T2 DSTs are nice for large/low value things... but their slowness gives gankers time to decide if they want to gank it, if its worth it, they will gank it and you don't even have a freighter's tank. https://zkillboard.com/kill/45492115/

Blockade Runner is about speed and invisibility which is your best friend for avoiding ganks. It doesn't have the ability to tank damage, but your job is to never get targeted and to be too fast to catch. If they are locked and firing on you, you messed up.

TL;DR Get a blockade runner, speed, cloak, safety, risk management


Easy to gank? Always preheat everything (else you use your DST wrong) and look at the stats of this thing:

[Occator, Rep]
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Damage Control II
Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Shadow Serpentis Armor Kinetic Hardener
Armor Explosive Hardener II

Medium Micro Jump Drive
10MN Afterburner II
Cap Recharger I

Improved Cloaking Device II
Cynosural Field Generator I /OFFLINE

Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II

When your AAR is empty, you are in Concord's hands anyway. I prefer the Impel personally but the Occator has a better damage resist profile. And the price is only 185 mil isk fitted, you can lose a lot of freighters for that.

119xxx EHP, 92.2 / 94.9 / 97.5 / 85.9 resist profile and 2200 armor EHP/sec with a 165m signature.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#35 - 2015-04-24 12:07:15 UTC
Peekup Andropov wrote:
Thanks for this thread, OP. I got popped recently in my Iteron V by a Vexor.

https://zkillboard.com/kill/45750661/

I fly manual, but it was just too slow to get into warp. For me, that was a very big loss. I could use the help if someone wants to point me to a better fit. Clearly, the stabs were not any help this time and I need to get some rigs.

I will be able to fly a blockade runner in about a month. I'm fairly low skill point still.

Good topic!

Спасибо!



I often move valuable, compact loot like those drone damage amps. (Usually for me, it's blueprints).

Unlike you, however, I use a ship designed for doing so, an Interceptor.

If you can't fly an interceptor, any fast aligning tech 1 frigate will do fine.


Ask yourself a question. "Does 50% of the value I am hauling fit into 1% of my cargo space?"

If the answer is yes, you are using the wrong ship.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

virm pasuul
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2015-04-24 15:37:20 UTC
Buy a permit. Follow the CODE.

Don't buy expensive stuff you intend to haul on the character that is doing the hauling. Red Frog has this as part of their standard operating procedure. The character that accepts the contract is not easily linked to the character that doers the hauling.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2015-04-25 07:51:36 UTC
I use me trusty Nereus for hauling, gets a bit over 32k EHP with a shield buffer fit, could probably get more if I wanted.

Active tank on a hauler is a no-no, they don't call them alpha-nados for nothing.
arabella blood
Keyboard Jihad
#38 - 2015-04-26 11:04:28 UTC
The best defence is not be a target in the first place - the best way to.achive that is using a blackade runner.
fly cloaked even in high sec and use the insta un/docks every time.
most people with a blocake runner will tell you they own it for years - and that is because of its supreme survival abilities.

Troll for hire. Cheap prices.

Damjan Fox
Fox Industries and Exploration
#39 - 2015-04-26 14:33:20 UTC
Quote:
The total volume for the cargo was 10 m3.

Think man. Shocked

^This.

If you are hauling small but valuable stuff, get something fast and ideally cloaked. I use Asteros for such things. Align time is under 2 seconds, they can warp cloaked, and warp speed can be on interceptor level. And with Instant Dock/Undock bookmarks you should be pretty safe.
Eve Mogul
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2015-04-30 08:26:34 UTC
-->> Video on how to set insta-undock bookmarks
I don't remember the last time I undocked from Jita without using one of these on any character I have (trader or PvP toon).


I also agree with all the suggestions to use a cloaky Blockade Runner. Without question, train for one and use it. There's nothing that stops you "clenching" more than being able to cloak when the aggression starts.

A few other ship types I've used depending on the items being hauled and where they're going include a stabbed/cloaked/nullified T3 Cruiser for smaller extremely high value stuff (20-30bil hauling runs often into nullsec), and sometimes also a Jump Freighter. I mostly get a kick out of the cyno process and effects which is why I use a Jump Freighter, but additionally you can undock from a hub in a reasonably well tanked ship and gtfo extremely quickly, virtually insta-undock quick.

At the end of the day though if you trade, haul or use high end gear, you're going to have to haul many billions of isk of items all around Eve and this will more than likely include the hubs. You're not going to be safe all the time and like many say sometimes it's better to not fly the ships you can't afford to lose (or not haul the cargo you can't afford to lose...).

Having said that though, when you master trading you get to a point where you realise... "hey, I can afford EVERYTHING!"
At this point you'll care a lot less about what you're flying and what you've got in it, and you'll be able to "declench" much more readily.

Inter-Regional Trading Basics : http://evemogul.info

Daily market tweets : https://twitter.com/EveMogul

Eve Trading Videos - Starring... me! : http://www.youtube.com/user/evemogul

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