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The dangers of hauling

Author
Feoria Saissore
Evil League of Evil Corp
#1 - 2015-03-25 01:10:06 UTC
Hi all,

I'm feoria, I spend a bit of time here almost every day and I wanted to talk about some dangers I've faced in the past month due to hauling. Over the last month I've had my hauler popped twice leaving a trade hub to go on a run. The first time I should have known that I was falling into a trap when I bought a mod for 2.5 bil and the sell price in jita was 4.5 bil. Greed got me here and the moment I undocked my ship was dust. I've been using an Iteron Mark V as my primary ship since I've yet to make time for training to cloaky transports and freighters. The second time, I thought I was being smart by double wrapping my cargo and I had 2.2 bil worth of mods, equipment and implants. Thankfully, each time, the most valuable loot didn't drop for the pirates who was looking to make some quick isk.

The good news is that I'm not completely bankrupt, but a 4.7 bil drop in isk will hurt anyone. I've learned my lesson about hauling valuable loot from port to port.

Here's a few things that I'll be doing from now on.

1. I refuse to carry anything over 1 bil in the cargo hold.
2. If I need it somewhere, It can go through a courier.
3. Passive Armour tank is superior to Active Shield tank
4. Cloaks are your friend.
5. Don't fly with anything you can't afford to lose (this may need to be rule number 1)


Anyone else care to share hauling tips and tricks, or share stories of getting popped and losing it all.

"All I'm sayin is, if The Doctor wanted to save our universe, all he has to do is go back in time and get Firefly back on the air."

Draupp
Children of The Cursed Land
#2 - 2015-03-25 01:52:08 UTC
Keep flying those Iteron Mark V they are pimp hauling ships and definitely can't be ganked by anything cheap and easily replaceable.

Oh and always double wrap.
Feoria Saissore
Evil League of Evil Corp
#3 - 2015-03-25 01:53:36 UTC
It was a hurricane that took me out last time. It's a bit disheartening to be insta-popped but I fly what I can

"All I'm sayin is, if The Doctor wanted to save our universe, all he has to do is go back in time and get Firefly back on the air."

Huttan Funaila
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2015-03-25 04:04:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Huttan Funaila
Train for a deep space transport. While sluggish, they have battleship size tanks. You mention Iteron V, since that ship used to require Gallente Industrial V, I'm presuming that you have level skill. I do not recommend blockade runners as many folks will suicide-gank them on "general principles" because they cannot be scanned. An Orca is miserable for hauling stuff and if you try to use one, you'll be sorry.

One possible fit you may be interested in:

Quote:

[Occator, Hauly McHauler]
Damage Control II
Centii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Centii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Centii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Layered Plating II
Layered Plating II

Medium Micro Jump Drive
10MN Afterburner II
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50

Improved Cloaking Device II
[empty high slot]

Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II

In addition to the skills needed to fit the above stuff, you want Evasive Maneuvering V.

Most of the items are passive, since I've noticed that I get flustered when jumped on gates. A-type adaptive nano plates are about 1/10 the cost of the active items and are surprisingly affordable for the resists. Eve Fitting Tool gives this over 82k EHP, but my characters only get about 73k EHP with their current skills. While you can easily hit 200k EHP with an Orca, it is far less maneuverable than a transport and I think the MJD makes the transport a far superior choice. The fleet hanger size is based on your transport skill, so you'd be stupid to put cargo expanders on a transport.

If you travel to the major trade hubs on a regular basis, I strongly recommend that you set up "instawarp" locations somewhere in excess of 600km off the undock. Always use your instawarp. Always. If you are too drunk to remember to hit your instawarp then you are too drunk to haul stuff - go mine instead. If someone starts bumping you at a gate, then engage your micro jump drive. After jumping away (it takes you 100km in the direction you were facing when they bumped you), hit cloak, travel in a random-ish direction away from the gate you wanted to travel to and wait out the timer for the MJD (alternatively, warp to 100 or 70 for a celestial, aim away from where you were heading, hit cloak then wait for the MJD timer to expire). Generally, align to the target gate, hit the MWD and halfway through the cycle hit the warp button and turn off the MWD. I've noticed that if you turn off the MWD before the end of the cycle, it warps away at the end of the 1st cycle. Letting the MWD cycle fully, the MWD turns off and it takes 10-ish additional seconds to hit warp.

Generally, the advisable limits on hauling in a T1 industrial is around 100M isk. I find that way too many people use passive targeters (you will not get yellow-boxed) and ship scanners on the major hauling routes. One experience with hauling an 800M isk BPO in a T1 was enlightening enough, it survived multiple attempted ganks from gate campers in high sec.
LuckyQuarter
Lucky Galactic Expeditions
#5 - 2015-03-25 06:22:23 UTC
Advice (take it or leave it):
- Iterons really shouldn't be used for hauling to/from trade hubs, they are a necessity for those just starting out and for certain tasks in wormholes or at POS's, but otherwise just have too thin a tank to carry anything of value. Yes, I've used them in the past to carry expensive control towers/etc, so I'm somewhat of a hypocrite, but I think that I was just lucky there.
- The general hauling ship should be your faction's DST (Deep Space Transport). Much greater cargo capacity, built in warp stabs, and an excellent ability to withstand damage in highsec until concord arrives or you manage to dock up. That said, putting more than 300M in these might also be asking for trouble.
- Orca's are OK for general hauling, but even if you fully tank them - I wouldn't carry more than 500M of cargo.
- Freighter, if fit only for tank, and if you have the implants/etc to optimize agility and structure HP can reasonably carry up to 1B in cargo, but I'd avoid 0.5 systems and popular gank systems wherever possible.
- Blockade runners really are designed for two environments, getting past low-sec gatecamps and for rapid hauling of essential pos fuel/etc to bases in wormholes. Otherwise, the cargo capabilities and the desire for many gankers to kill these ships on sight don't make them worthwhile.

Also, you should already have setup and use instawarp points for all major trade hubs. With iterons especially, avoid using any more cargo expanders than you absolutely require. Put 1-2 inertial stabs to speed up getting to warp in low slots when possible.
Vaako Omaristos
Doomheim
#6 - 2015-03-25 08:51:54 UTC
Yeah i lost a several 100 ship bpc's when i got ganked last week. It just happens. I 'll skill for a blocade runner soon.

Trader, industrialist and thinker. Follow my progress on my 141 trading challenge here

voetius
Grundrisse
#7 - 2015-03-25 08:56:26 UTC

DSTs or public couriers are the best ways to move stuff IMO. Sometimes I might use a T1 hauler on one of my trade alts to move something cheap, like reports or datasheets for invention but nothing worth more than a mill or two, it's dangerous out there :)
Kain Duku
LoGisTicAl ERr0R
#8 - 2015-03-25 09:41:16 UTC
Were the containers full of items aswell or were they just in there taking up space?



Tear Jar
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#9 - 2015-03-25 09:50:26 UTC
Feoria Saissore wrote:
Hi all,

I'm feoria, I spend a bit of time here almost every day and I wanted to talk about some dangers I've faced in the past month due to hauling. Over the last month I've had my hauler popped twice leaving a trade hub to go on a run. The first time I should have known that I was falling into a trap when I bought a mod for 2.5 bil and the sell price in jita was 4.5 bil. Greed got me here and the moment I undocked my ship was dust. I've been using an Iteron Mark V as my primary ship since I've yet to make time for training to cloaky transports and freighters. The second time, I thought I was being smart by double wrapping my cargo and I had 2.2 bil worth of mods, equipment and implants. Thankfully, each time, the most valuable loot didn't drop for the pirates who was looking to make some quick isk.

The good news is that I'm not completely bankrupt, but a 4.7 bil drop in isk will hurt anyone. I've learned my lesson about hauling valuable loot from port to port.

Here's a few things that I'll be doing from now on.

1. I refuse to carry anything over 1 bil in the cargo hold.
2. If I need it somewhere, It can go through a courier.
3. Passive Armour tank is superior to Active Shield tank
4. Cloaks are your friend.
5. Don't fly with anything you can't afford to lose (this may need to be rule number 1)


Anyone else care to share hauling tips and tricks, or share stories of getting popped and losing it all.


I suggest buying a permit. From the New Order. 4.7b isk is the equivelant of 470 year long permits. A great deal to avoid losses.
Thomas Mayaki
Perkone
Caldari State
#10 - 2015-03-25 10:04:31 UTC
Tear Jar wrote:


I suggest buying a permit. From the New Order. 4.7b isk is the equivelant of 470 year long permits. A great deal to avoid losses.



The New Order at the moment is a bit pitiful since Loyalanon left. Your main concern should be the goons, who do ganking more for profit than a cult thing.
Samsara Toldya
Academy of Contradictory Behaviour
#11 - 2015-03-25 10:50:01 UTC
Feoria Saissore wrote:

Here's a few things that I'll be doing from now on.

1. I refuse to carry anything over 1 bil in the cargo hold.
2. If I need it somewhere, It can go through a courier.
3. Passive Armour tank is superior to Active Shield tank
4. Cloaks are your friend.
5. Don't fly with anything you can't afford to lose (this may need to be rule number 1)


T1 inudstrials, no matter how many tank mods you fit, will die to a Tornado volley.
Tornado ~80M ISK fitted for gank.
Chance of loot drop: 50%
If loot > price for gank Tornado gankers make a profit.
If 80M ISK = 50% of what needs to drop to make a profit -> 160M ISK in your cargo is too much.

1b ISK... that might be ok in a real freighter with lowslots full of bulkheads, not in a T1 industrial.

Cloaks aren't a safe bet. You need to be 2000m away from the station you undock to activate cloak. Enough time to lock and shoot you.
Without instadock bookmarks you might end up slowboating 100-500m into docking range - cloak won't work there - enough time to lock and shoot you.

"Instadock", "Instaundock" can help you.

Buffertank is your friend, not matter if it is shield, armor or hull.
Deactivating your autopilot is your friend.
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#12 - 2015-03-25 11:59:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Pak Narhoo
As written above 'insta undocks' are your friend.

The further away (+1000KM) the better.
Same for insta docks, bookmark when you're in the stations docking range. Be careful though with big ships, too close and they may be bumped away.
Amarrchecko
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2015-03-25 12:09:31 UTC
LuckyQuarter wrote:
- Orca's are OK for general hauling, but even if you fully tank them - I wouldn't carry more than 500M of cargo.
- Freighter, if fit only for tank, and if you have the implants/etc to optimize agility and structure HP can reasonably carry up to 1B in cargo, but I'd avoid 0.5 systems and popular gank systems wherever possible.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't orcas be made much tougher than freighters while also being more agile?
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#14 - 2015-03-25 12:12:54 UTC
A New Order permit is a wise purchase.

But really, do what I do. You need peasant work (hauling) done.

That is what peasants exist for.

Use them.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#15 - 2015-03-25 13:17:50 UTC
A blockade runner is a great ship and will qualify you for a deep space transport. A 10 sec equipped orca can be an effective hauler with a giant tank

For smaller cargo a Stratios can be the quickest train.

Also, make sure you have insta undocks and docks at the hub.

Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#16 - 2015-03-25 16:04:24 UTC
your 2.7b mod to sell for 4.7b is a scam anyways, check the minimum number being bought
that's uses market margin trading to accomplish, the module itself probably really isn't even the 2+ bill as ive seen officer armor mods and some others go for a mere 200-300m but were all bought in a region and set at 1-2+b with a buy order of almost double what they were selling with a minimum purchase amount to insure you have to buy them all off the market to make the trade and then either 1 the buy order disappears magicly or 2 you don't don't get the isk due to the seller really not having that amount of cash and such leaving you with a few hundred mill of mods that you paid billions for.

and the permits are useless no matter WHO you get them from, I just prefer to shoot the permit sellers for selling permits with out a permit, even the empires need the grunt work done.

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith

adriaans
Ankaa.
Nair Al-Zaurak
#17 - 2015-03-26 19:48:34 UTC
Huttan Funaila wrote:
Train for a deep space transport. While sluggish, they have battleship size tanks. You mention Iteron V, since that ship used to require Gallente Industrial V, I'm presuming that you have level skill. I do not recommend blockade runners as many folks will suicide-gank them on "general principles" because they cannot be scanned.


Blockade runners pretty much insta warp though.. especially when agility fit.

----True oldschool solo pvp'er---- My latest vid: Insanity IV

Zad Murrard
Frozen Dawn Inc
Frozen Dawn Alliance
#18 - 2015-03-28 11:53:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Zad Murrard
As a beginner hauler:
- Use destroyers such as thrasher with some cargo expanders, people are more afraid of you than thinking that you're hauling stuff.
- Passive tank with other modules as much as possible. Look at the generic ganker fits to see which resistances you want to have.
- Use/create instant undock/dock bookmarks to stations you're using.
- Consider adding common ganking places to your navigation avoidance list

Afterwards:
- Max hull, armor, shield hit points with skills.
- Max resistance skills which you are using for your fit.
- Max aligning skills
- Use armor, hull, shield, warp implants to improve your tanking & warp speed
- Make sure your tank can withstand alpha from at least 1 tornado, preferably 2
- Choose ship that fits your hauling route. eg. for null sec warp bubble immunity is handy
Luna Lockhearts
Defiant Liberation Corporation
Defiant Collective
#19 - 2015-03-28 14:05:49 UTC
Even hauling over 100mil in an Iteron Mark V will probably get you ganked, I don't haul more than 1bil in my freighter.
Look into getting a freighter yourself, personally I'd say hauling simply isn't worth it and too dangerous until then, as to haul enough to make a decent profit would almost certainly mean your risking a gank.

Some people are like Slinky's, Not much good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

Ren Oren
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2015-03-29 22:18:24 UTC
Ok as a person who has hauled in high, low, nullsec and wormholes here is my advice

AttentionAttentionAttention GET A BLOCKADE RUNNERShockedShockedShocked, it gets you in and out of a location quick under cover of cloak.

Since highsec doesn't have bubbles or smart bombs its practically uncatchable unless you slip up badly in the wrong place. As long as you NEVER autopilot, cloak after each jump, and have a instant dock/undock you are the safest hauler in Eve...period

Some people argue that it doesn't have a super large cargo (I can get 17000m3 with my set up) but whats the point of having tons of cargo space if you get ganked and lose that cargo? I would rather do 3 round trips and have almost 0 risk, than to have 1 trip that increases my risk of getting ganked tenfold

T2 DSTs are nice for large/low value things... but their slowness gives gankers time to decide if they want to gank it, if its worth it, they will gank it and you don't even have a freighter's tank. https://zkillboard.com/kill/45492115/

Blockade Runner is about speed and invisibility which is your best friend for avoiding ganks. It doesn't have the ability to tank damage, but your job is to never get targeted and to be too fast to catch. If they are locked and firing on you, you messed up.

TL;DR Get a blockade runner, speed, cloak, safety, risk management
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