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Dev blog: Ship Customization: Time to Show Some SKIN

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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#361 - 2015-04-23 04:03:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Magosian wrote:
Ned Thomas wrote:
Think about how many there are in game currently versus other skins that are NOT site drops.


If I do that, the only thing I can conclude is CCP/Aurum moneygrab.

I should probably state that I happen to have a few of these, and while it might appear that I'm trying to milk their worth, I'm really not. As you said, there are tons floating around; they're far from rare. It just sticks out like a sore thumb when ONLY these are temporary, and seem to contradict the whole concept of having a skinnable options in the first place.

Maybe a better question would be: what is CCP wanting to avoid if these were to become permanent?

How can there be a money grab for something that isn't obtainable with money? That's really the fundamental difference there.

Please tell us how to acquire Aurum without paying money – I'm sure that I can't be the only one who would dearly like to know.

The skins being discussed there, the temporary pirate skins, are not sold for aur but found in game.

They even say loot drop when listed in the blog.
Oraac Ensor
#362 - 2015-04-23 04:15:20 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Magosian wrote:
Ned Thomas wrote:
Think about how many there are in game currently versus other skins that are NOT site drops.


If I do that, the only thing I can conclude is CCP/Aurum moneygrab.

I should probably state that I happen to have a few of these, and while it might appear that I'm trying to milk their worth, I'm really not. As you said, there are tons floating around; they're far from rare. It just sticks out like a sore thumb when ONLY these are temporary, and seem to contradict the whole concept of having a skinnable options in the first place.

Maybe a better question would be: what is CCP wanting to avoid if these were to become permanent?

How can there be a money grab for something that isn't obtainable with money? That's really the fundamental difference there.

Please tell us how to acquire Aurum without paying money – I'm sure that I can't be the only one who would dearly like to know.

The skins being discussed there, the temporary pirate skins, are not sold for aur but found in game.

They even say loot drop when listed in the blog.

Ah. I think I misunderstood Magosian's reasoning.
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#363 - 2015-04-23 04:45:28 UTC
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Magosian wrote:
Ned Thomas wrote:
Think about how many there are in game currently versus other skins that are NOT site drops.


If I do that, the only thing I can conclude is CCP/Aurum moneygrab.

I should probably state that I happen to have a few of these, and while it might appear that I'm trying to milk their worth, I'm really not. As you said, there are tons floating around; they're far from rare. It just sticks out like a sore thumb when ONLY these are temporary, and seem to contradict the whole concept of having a skinnable options in the first place.

Maybe a better question would be: what is CCP wanting to avoid if these were to become permanent?

How can there be a money grab for something that isn't obtainable with money? That's really the fundamental difference there.

Please tell us how to acquire Aurum without paying money – I'm sure that I can't be the only one who would dearly like to know.

How?
Redeem a PLEX for Aurum.
Buy legacy Aurum Tokens on the market. (I wish CCP would bring these back..)
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#364 - 2015-04-23 09:08:39 UTC
AUR tokens were a nice thought, but they only convolute the conversion between AUR and ISK. They don't need to exist when you can buy AUR for irl money, and buy AUR items with ISK.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Anthar Thebess
#365 - 2015-04-23 10:01:49 UTC
Can we have this in a bit different manner?
Hull Paint that is applied to first type ship used.

So i can buy Quafe cruiser hull paint , and it is assigned to first hull it going to be used - this way i can get quafe rupture , and if we want other cruiser in quafe colors we need to buy next paint for cruiser class.

This will simplify process for you , and allow more variety for each ship class , so also much more $$ for this game.

So when you decide to release some carrier skin we can apply it to all types of carriers .
This way we can get this kind of ships :
https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/ccpwgl/skindevblog/index.shtml?dna=gca2_t1:sebiestor:gallente&distance=4800
https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/ccpwgl/skindevblog/index.shtml?dna=gca2_t1:laidai:gallente&distance=4800
https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/ccpwgl/skindevblog/index.shtml?dna=gca2_t1:ardishapur:gallente&distance=4800

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#366 - 2015-04-23 10:42:46 UTC
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Magosian wrote:
Ned Thomas wrote:
Think about how many there are in game currently versus other skins that are NOT site drops.


If I do that, the only thing I can conclude is CCP/Aurum moneygrab.

I should probably state that I happen to have a few of these, and while it might appear that I'm trying to milk their worth, I'm really not. As you said, there are tons floating around; they're far from rare. It just sticks out like a sore thumb when ONLY these are temporary, and seem to contradict the whole concept of having a skinnable options in the first place.

Maybe a better question would be: what is CCP wanting to avoid if these were to become permanent?

How can there be a money grab for something that isn't obtainable with money? That's really the fundamental difference there.

Please tell us how to acquire Aurum without paying money – I'm sure that I can't be the only one who would dearly like to know.


Purchase PLEX and convert it to 3500 AURUM. Blink

...And they all crave one thing - ISK. ¤

[WTS] ME10 / TE20 BPOs from Battleships/Cruisers to Fighters, Carriers, Triage/Siege, XL modules & Cap Components
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#367 - 2015-04-23 11:01:19 UTC
GankYou wrote:
Purchase PLEX and convert it to 3500 AURUM. Blink

So, one month of game time for 2 Skins? Or not even one.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
John Mayweather
SCTEC
#368 - 2015-04-23 11:09:18 UTC  |  Edited by: John Mayweather
Well I actually wanted to buy all ship skins after the patch for my pvp accounts as i expected they stay roughly in the same price range or at least not more than twice the price ...

... guess I just changed my mind.

Ship skins are cool but would I pay those prices for them - not me.

Kind of sad CCP didn't learn anything from the past ...
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#369 - 2015-04-23 11:12:14 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
Rivr Luzade wrote:
GankYou wrote:
Purchase PLEX and convert it to 3500 AURUM. Blink

So, one month of game time for 2 Skins? Or not even one.


Four point seven, if you take the Rifters. Blink

I don't view it through the "1 month of game time" lens. This system will serve as a healthy wealth transfer from the more established players to the new generation. Much like how the PLEX works now.

Opportunities abound! Pirate

...And they all crave one thing - ISK. ¤

[WTS] ME10 / TE20 BPOs from Battleships/Cruisers to Fighters, Carriers, Triage/Siege, XL modules & Cap Components
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#370 - 2015-04-23 12:03:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Natya Mebelle
Something else I noticed:
I might be mistaken, but the "Ardishapur" Skin basically has the same colours as Viziam in the preview and Viziam is for Tech2 ships. Is this intended or accidental?
In the end, this should be a little reminder how two-colour tint masks with a third being lights might not be enough to make enough distinction between the corporations, not speaking about the visual distinction of Tech2 ships starts shrinking.

A much more direct "issue" are the Khanid skins. So far, Khanid has been Tech2 exclusive.

So my question would be here, what further distinction you intend to make between Tech1 SKINs and default Tech2 appearance of the same ship developer?

And to hop on the abundant price questions again:
I don't have much problems with the prices themselves, but I still feel the pricing should be balanced within it's own borders.
Previously, ship skin BPCs where priced depending on size of the ship. And now? The only thing that is related to that is the minimum price increasing, but the maximum goes out of bounds.

Frigates range from: 740 to 4300 Aurum.
Carrier + Dreadnought: 3455 to 4300
Titan range from: 4300 to 6500

I don't even... how in the world a frigate ship skin could be as expensive as a Capital ship? That's beyond me :c It doesn't make any sense.
But CCP Terminus has already said they'll be evaluating this. I just hope my best c: It is a really, really weird leap and I can't get it out of my head.

Anthar Thebess wrote:
Can we have this in a bit different manner?
Hull Paint that is applied to first type ship used.

So i can buy Quafe cruiser hull paint , and it is assigned to first hull it going to be used - this way i can get quafe rupture , and if we want other cruiser in quafe colors we need to buy next paint for cruiser class.

This will simplify process for you , and allow more variety for each ship class , so also much more $$ for this game.

I would love to agree with you, but I'm afraid it won't work that way. Corporations are Faction specific. It wouldn't make any sense for a Caldari Corporation to produce a skin with their logo on it to be flown on a Gallente ship.
So for the same colour scheme to apply it would need to be a different corporation name, native to the faction. Of course, this also brings the question if the designers even want that to have in their world. Think about how people are freaking out nowadays already if a "competing company" uses the same or similar colours / design / name for a similar product.

Don't get me wrong, I think the idea is sound! c: But I don't think it would be cross faction, but rather inside the faction.
Buy a Frigate Sukuuvestaa skin, apply it to any Caldari frigate.
Buy a Nefantar Cruiser Skin, apply it to any Minmatar Cruiser.
And so on c:
Tomb Ovaert
9B30FF Labs
#371 - 2015-04-23 12:48:48 UTC
I may have missed this, but... is it scheduled for the April 28th patch? Bear
Theo Sotken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#372 - 2015-04-23 12:59:23 UTC
GankYou wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
GankYou wrote:
Purchase PLEX and convert it to 3500 AURUM. Blink

So, one month of game time for 2 Skins? Or not even one.


Four point seven, if you take the Rifters. Blink

I don't view it through the "1 month of game time" lens. This system will serve as a healthy wealth transfer from the more established players to the new generation. Much like how the PLEX works now.

Opportunities abound! Pirate


Since plex is the only thing that consistantly goes up in price I suspect that the 'older players' you mention are sitting on quite a lot of plexes bought at quite a lower price. So in reality it will cost those players less for skins than those having to buy plexes now.
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#373 - 2015-04-23 13:58:40 UTC
Sven Viko VIkolander wrote:
buying all of the new ship SKINs coming on April 28th will cost:

263,945 AURUM.

which is approximately 64b isk in value,

or 1,170 USD.

And you will probably release more eventually...

Uhhhh, that seems a little high. JUST A little. It is so high that basically no one will attempt to collect all of the skins, whereas if they were substantially lower in price you would have many more people buying all of them.
My guess is they would rather chance a few less than intelligent people with too much bloody money that buy a lot of these instead of making the reasonable and responsible business/marketing choice and setting the price a little more reasonable.

Would be an interesting comparison to see how much the total for all the vanity items for other MMO's are. But my guess is that there are a lot more items in other games, though they are probably significantly cheaper individually.

Azusa Asara wrote:
There are 254 ships in the game not including starters and shuttles or factions not shown in ISIS. If you release 4 skins per ship, that is 1016 skins in total, with the prices as are, people may buy 1 or 2 skins for their favorite ship and leave it at that.

These prices would be understandable if one could apply the Skin to any ship or at least any ship of a designated faction. This much for a single ship is insane.
All the more reason I wish they had gone with a module slot type implementation of the SKIN systems instead of what they are doing. The way they are going there are going to be just plain tooooo many SKINs. This greatly increases their workload on the back end just to manage the system.

With having more generalized ship class or or faction allowance for SKIN use would greatly decrease the number of variants required. Further having the SKIN put on the ship via a module slot would allow people to apply or remove the SKIN at will to either put on a different ship or to apply a different SKIN to that one.

Lastly, since CCP has already proven that applying any SKIN to any ship does not require any further work from the art or development team (via all the various tools for previewing skins and being able to apply any SKIN to any hull, like the WebGL tool or even during several different panels at FanFest. Which is another reason why any justification for the hi prices in order to reward the art team seems to me a hollow reach at best.

Ned Thomas wrote:
Don't know if it was ever mentioned in this thread, actually. I know I gave the answer in another thread down in general discussion, and CCP FoxFour is the one who originally answered it over on Reddit (always good to watch both here and there for Dev responses....and twitter.....yeesh these people are hard to keep up with).

Anyway, the answer is that the special edition Miasmos-es have different base stats than the regular Miasmos, and they will remain separate ships because of this.

Link to relevent posts on r/eve
You know, because using Reddit as a primary feedback response mechanism as compared to their Official Forums and the Official Feedback Thread linked in the Official Devblog seems like a totally legit business model... why not just link the Reddit thread from the Devblog instead of this thread?

Sojourn wrote:
The LIMITED EDITION SHIP no longer becomes limited edition because it will be a skin that can be applied to your ship constantly over and over again. That was the point I am making. Limited is no longer Limited. Its unlimited for that character. They can go and lose as many of them ships with them skins as they want.
Glad someone else sees this too... and how realistically easily can you visually tell the difference between a Victory Edition and a standard Rattlesnake skin as it warps past you at a gate?
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#374 - 2015-04-23 14:07:32 UTC
Theo Sotken wrote:
Since plex is the only thing that consistantly goes up in price I suspect that the 'older players' you mention are sitting on quite a lot of plexes bought at quite a lower price. So in reality it will cost those players less for skins than those having to buy plexes now.

Not only plex related items are rising in price since years but let's not go there, it is an endless discussion based on speculation c:
And in reality, people also buy plex with real money, and that price doesn't change c: People often seem to forget that plex don't come from nowhere.

But on that note, sure, I also don't know which wealth transfer Gankyou is talking about because it goes both ways. New player uses real money to buy ship skins to sell to players having lots of ISK to get ISK. Sounds a bit more convoluted than simply selling plex, but hey, opportunities abound c:
The other direction goes as well though. Wealthy players using stocked up plex from days where it ways cheaper to buy Aurum and make a profit to sell those ship skins. It's just more ISK shoved around in the game world both ways, but more income for CCP in total.

Sven Viko VIkolander wrote:
Uhhhh, that seems a little high. JUST A little.
When I was starting with Guild Wars 2, a guy on my server poured in 500 bucks into the gem versus gold exchange so he could instantly buy the Commander book for World versus World raid groups.
Only because it is much for you doesn't mean it is bad or too much for everyone else c: Please let people decide how they spend their money on their own. If prices are too high, CCP will see it because the sales will not go as anticipated. And as many people mentioned, the disparity between ship skins for the same hull size and ship is "a bit weird".
Also, who says that everybody has to collect all skins? And who says everybody has to buy all skins on the day they appear?
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#375 - 2015-04-23 15:54:40 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
The entire SKIN thing came about from player requests for the ability to customize their ships. CCP, you may think you have provided that capability. But you have not. I cannot customize my ship. All I can do is allow you to customize my ship. I cannot select the specific colors I want, or the patterns I want, or the features I want. All I can do is choose to let you give me the colors, patterns, and features you want.

Sure, this is a quite good step in the right direction, but I still want to customize my ship.



you do realize this is the first step right? they have already said that customization is coming.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#376 - 2015-04-23 16:01:20 UTC
Theo Sotken wrote:
GankYou wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
GankYou wrote:
Purchase PLEX and convert it to 3500 AURUM. Blink

So, one month of game time for 2 Skins? Or not even one.


Four point seven, if you take the Rifters. Blink

I don't view it through the "1 month of game time" lens. This system will serve as a healthy wealth transfer from the more established players to the new generation. Much like how the PLEX works now.

Opportunities abound! Pirate


Since plex is the only thing that consistantly goes up in price I suspect that the 'older players' you mention are sitting on quite a lot of plexes bought at quite a lower price. So in reality it will cost those players less for skins than those having to buy plexes now.


And where does PLEX originate from? Arkonor trees? Blink

Your point is... beside the point.

...And they all crave one thing - ISK. ¤

[WTS] ME10 / TE20 BPOs from Battleships/Cruisers to Fighters, Carriers, Triage/Siege, XL modules & Cap Components
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#377 - 2015-04-23 16:13:34 UTC
GankYou wrote:
And where does PLEX originate from? Arkonor trees? Blink

ARKONOR TREES! YOU ARE MY HERO!

*goes away again to stare at Space fishies *
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#378 - 2015-04-23 16:53:15 UTC
Natya Mebelle wrote:
So my question would be here, what further distinction you intend to make between Tech1 SKINs and default Tech2 appearance of the same ship developer?


My guess would be at the actual hull, since there's a parallel project underway to give every T2 variant its own geometry.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#379 - 2015-04-23 17:21:47 UTC
You mean like the "drastic" changes to stealth bombers compared to other T2 hulls? That sounds interesting c: But I'm also a bit concerned too, because...
The Manticore has enough resemblance to the Kestrel, same as Breacher to Hound.
The Nemesis might be a bit too beefy for a re-purposed Tristan.
But I think the Purifier is too much out there. The Purifier looks more like a Dragoon than an Inquisitor.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#380 - 2015-04-23 17:46:44 UTC
will the new caracal/cerberus model be out in the new release? .. if not then the next one?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using