Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Second time I’m typing this in Word first :D

Old topic had been locked so let’s have a new one to all caps rage and QQ in.

So basic overview of what brought me here. In the past 2 months I’ve had 2 Hulks blown up and a corp mate has had another killed. First time I ignored thinking it was just a bit of fun for them and EVE is just a game after all but after the second time someone pointed out that there’s rules against grief so I thought I’d do my civic duty and petition my heart out. This turned into a long and productive argument with a very nice and helpful GM where it was explained that it’s not grief if there’s profit so I then did the maths on the back of an envelope (you’ll see it later) proving no chance of profit. I was then told to factor in insurance....insurance for a suicide ship, of course makes perfect sense that an insurance company would pay out in this situation how silly of me.

Long story short, this high sec insurance fraud has evolved into a genuine problem rather than a nuisance. It’s giving griefers a legit way to ruin other peoples’ days.
Quick maths done with approximate Forge market value and some guess work:
Brutix 19.5mil Loot (if everything survives) 12mil
Suicide fit ~2mil Salvage (massive guess) 5mil?
Total 21.5mil Total 17mil
Total loss: 4.5mil

But when you add in the extra 13.4mil profit from the insurance grief suddenly becomes ban avoiding profit making. Now I admit I’ve never salvaged a Hulk or fitted a suicide Brutix so by all means slap me round the face and prove this is profit making but a large factor is my fit of 5 modules worth 3-3.5 mil each and when do they ever ALL survive?

Now I’ll be the first to admit I’m bias in this argument and am likely to remain that way unless I change EVE career so I open the floor up to debate. I do however ask that we keep it sensible and any in game stories be kept to minimum exaggeration cause if you over exaggerate people will see right through it and any point you have, no matter how good and for either side of the argument, will instantly become null and void in most peoples’ eyes. So is it finally time to fix this what do we think people.

I have thought about how it could be implemented as well and maybe even just say all situations where you purposefully attack another ship, be they pilot or pirate, should void your insurance for that battle as in a real life company if you flew a single frigate at a pirate fleet your insurance company would still turn round and say you idiot, although there is definitely an argument for keeping it to CONCORD intervention only.

Hmm, I think I agree that if you do something that makes CONCORD pop you, they should also revoke the insurance. It makes sense in my head.

you numbers are wrong. Assume 50% loss of mods, 50% loss of cargo at least. What I hovered around on many pvp deaths and saw from the targets km's I collected.


Look at kb's to see for yourself. Look at several dozens to get a nice sample size. its chanced based....sometimes those who killed you get lucky, sometimes they get screwed.

what bums me out about insurance is its worthless on a t2 or t3 ship

Yes, if you get CONCORD'd you'd lose your insurance. This means that if you're not carrying anything of worth, don't worry unless you really pissed someone off or if someone is just out to suicide ganks someone and take the ISK loss.

And if you're carrying something of worth and they scan you down, be afraid. Be very afraid. Your cargo will pay for their suicide gank and you obviously is an attractive target.

From what I've read in the old forums high sec gankers would only really attack haulers. Here the majority of the profit was made from the loot and the insurance just used to be a way co cover a little more of the cost of the ship. Now with the suiciding of Hulks the only way they can make the profit is with the insurance money. This is allowing griefers in high sec to get away with killing people just for fun by saying it's for profit. Taking out insurance when CONCORD is on your @$$ won't stop the hauler killers but it will allow for Hulk pilots to petition for short trem bans on those that blow them up.

This is all I'm asking, I don't want to be reimbursed, I just want it to be reckonised that these people are griefing and should be punished for it. This also wouldn't stop people making money from jet miners therfore still making mining potentially "dangerous" and when I'm jet mining, fair dos if someone comes along and steals all my ore I get a little annoyed that I've just wasted an hour or more but I get over it. Having a Hulk destroyed and watching the culpit laughing in your face cause there's noting you can do about it is not on.

I haven't read anything that suggests suicide ganking needs to be nerfed.

Now if hulks are too easy to prey on then perhaps they need some sort of ehp buff or there should be a new mining ship with more ehp.

But what you propose would nerf suicide ganking as a whole. if you nerf suicide ganking out of existance then there would be little reason for most high sec traders to ever do anythign other than afk in a t1 industrial. There would be no game play aspect to moving stuff in high sec at all. Not that there is allot now, but there have been a few times that a heavy tank saved me several 100 million isk.


And its not insurance fraud. The policy says you will be reimbursed for a ship loss. There is no exception for concord.

GODDAMN FORUM FAIL I SPENT 40MINS TYPING THAT REPLY haha caught you out this time i've copy pasted



http://support.eveonline.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=336
This is a link to the page on grief play. It defines grief as having fun at other people's expence without making profit. Now these players are killing my hulks to make my day worse but because of insurance paying out for people killed by CONCORD they make a profit so due to a loop hole in the rule it's fine and the GMs told me there's nothing they can do about it even if the players have pretty much said to me they're getting kicks out of setting me back 200mil

How is it griefing? Shooting people (and being shot) in a PvP-centric free-for-all sandbox game is kind of natural. It comes with the territory. So just blowing you up does not qualify as griefing.[/quote]

Blowing me up to make my day worse however is griefing. Basicly would be repeting my last statement so I'm going to stop there.

And why is that a problem that needs to be solved?[/quote]

Mis-quote much? If you go back to the whole of that quote you'll see that I said that although I get annoyed by people stealing an hour's worth of mining, I'm OK with it. These people often reply to any massages in a friendly manner and I've often had nice convos with ore stealers where as these suicide people who're making profit just on the insurance hurl abuse at me and as I said laugh in my face.

But there are plenty of things you can do about it. You just choose not to do them for various reasons. So, again, what's the problem?[/quote]

Please expand. I'm in a belt on my own, a cloaked scout has set a bookmark, the Brutix warps to minimal and kills me in 2-3 shots. There is no time to react.

If you have a ship that can turn a hulk into a mass od molten metal in seconds go out into low sec where you'll make decent profits if that's what you're looking for. If you're doing it purely to make my day worse stop hiding behind a loop hole. Remove insurance from CONCORD kills and this would solve this exploit whilst not severly damaging the ganking of haulers which is truely done for profit.

It states this in that link also:

"The EVE universe is a harsh universe largely driven by such conflict and notice must be taken of the fact that nonconsensual combat alone is not considered to be grief play per the above definition."

But within the rules, according to your link.

Would you consider changing the fit on your hulk, to provide you with more EHP?

Also, are you saying that by removing insurance, the random ganking of hulks would stop?