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Crime & Punishment

 
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Bitter Vet - High Sec War Decs are Broken. Lets Talk :)

First post
Author
Solecist Project
#201 - 2015-04-21 18:47:11 UTC
Ssshhhh Pedro, it's going well right now... :)

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Freya Sertan
Doomheim
#202 - 2015-04-21 18:50:13 UTC
This is a fun thread. I love the indignant replies from the obvious alt. I've gone from wanting to help to wanting to wardec him. In my ONE person alt corp.

New Eden isn't nice. It isn't friendly. It isn't very hospitiable. Good thing there are people here to shoot in the face.

Want to make New Eden a nice place? Try this out.

alexclone1
Junkyard Gunners.
#203 - 2015-04-21 18:52:37 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
alexclone1 wrote:
SilentAsTheGrave wrote:
The problem with war decs is there is no grey area where players can have choices on mitigating it. It is all or nothing. So small groups are easily overwhelmed by large and powerful forces. Sure you can cross your arms and say, "that's eve" But the reality is it does not make for good gameplay.


exactly. War decs are good. Industrial corps should be war dec'd. But the current mechanic allowing just about everyone, at once, to wardec a corp that already has 5 war decs against it makes no sense. And if your corp is active, and dudes die (which happens in wardecs) then they constantly become renewed.

Esentially your only option is to log out for a week and pray they dont renew. 30 vs 300 just isnt viable. Especially when the costs of said war dec are minimal.

Edit: This is high sec. Not null sec. In null sec you wave all right to things being fair because there are no npc faction/mechanics protecting you. Its pure politics. In high sec, you have a pay a fee to the npc faction (not shoot on site) and that is the particular mechanic that is broken imo.

The costs need to be higher. If you wanted to war dec someone, it should be because they REALLY pissed you off. Not because you want to shoot at miners.

Do you really expect us to believe that if wardecs were say limited to 3 per corp, that you would be happy? No, if your industrial corp was still wardecced you would be here on the forums claiming that they are still unbalanced because your corp was wardecced by someone bigger than you.

All a restriction on numbers would do is break wardeccers up into smaller corps, and hurt struggling highsec mercenaries even more than the current wardec mechanics already do. Raising costs would make an already too costly mechanic out of reach for small corps to dip their toes in PvP with or settle scores with other small corps.

You should be able to wardec someone whenever you want. You should definitely be able to wardec someone because it is your profession and people are paying you to do so. This is a sandbox after all.

New highsec corps, even purely industrial ones, are founded and flourish in the face of wardecs all the time. Just because you were not successful does not mean it is not possible. Learn from your experience, and try again.


You are assuming that dec limits or number limits is my solution.

I have posted multiple times that COST OF THE WARDEC is the solution. If 5 corps war dec me, at least have the satisfaction of knowing that they are paying out the nose to do it.

Please make an attempt not to be so hostile without reading previous posts. Clearly im talking to a pilot of whom i have been having a conversation the last few pages.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#204 - 2015-04-21 18:56:18 UTC
Danalee wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

As if I care, you say you war dec'd me because I took some loser to task over his killboard when he was sprouting HTFU rubbish in another thread and yet you don't even come after me, this exchange between me and you lies at the heart of the disconnect of war dec's, I happen to think you war decc'd us because you were paid, but all I am is added to the pot so your instra lockers can kill a few noobs. But lets suppose you did not, you did it because of something I said, yet you have not hunted me, you have not taken down my POS, what is the reason for your war dec, how can you make me cry, except by laughing too hard. Thankyou for making me laugh so much.


Look at it like a trapper.

I go out and set traps... hundreds of them.
Than I do my rounds... sometimes I get lots of game, sometimes I get none.
I have fun.

You assume waaaay too much:

because I took some loser to task over his killboard when he was sprouting HTFU rubbish
WHAT are you talking about?
you don't even come after me
Did, twice. You ran. Twice.
this exchange between me and you lies at the heart of the disconnect of war dec's
Wait, what?! It has nothing to do with wardecs. This exchange is nothing but that. An exchange.
you war decc'd us because you were paid
nop.
your instra lockers can kill a few noobs.
My what? What are you on about?
yet you have not hunted me.
See above, twice.
you have not taken down my POS
Yet, keep talking.

what is the reason for your war dec, how can you make me cry,

He cried...

D.

Bear


For this toon there could only be one incident and warping away from a cloaked up Pilgrim after I destoyed a MTU on the Mad gate in Niarja which only decloaked 5 minutes after I warped away to destroy a depot belonging to the other corp is not exactly running away.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Danalee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#205 - 2015-04-21 18:56:34 UTC
alexclone1 wrote:
I have posted multiple times that COST OF THE WARDEC is the solution. If 5 corps war dec me, at least have the satisfaction of knowing that they are paying out the nose to do it.

Please make an attempt not to be so hostile without reading previous posts. Clearly im talking to a pilot of whom i have been having a conversation the last few pages.


You'd like that, wouldn't you? Wardec yourself and be done with it. Nop, won't happen.

You try and read our posts maybe? People offering real advice and help get ignored while you cherry pick small parts to make your flawed argument. You think we're slow or something?
It's a shame you thing so little of the EVE forum dwellers.

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Solecist Project
#206 - 2015-04-21 18:57:50 UTC
Raising the cost achieves nothing but the opposite.

Noobs will be unable to afford wardecs.
Old megacorps as you put them have ISK to **** out anyway.

Malcanis' Law applies.
Sorry but that's simply no solution.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

alexclone1
Junkyard Gunners.
#207 - 2015-04-21 18:59:53 UTC  |  Edited by: alexclone1
Danalee wrote:
alexclone1 wrote:
I have posted multiple times that COST OF THE WARDEC is the solution. If 5 corps war dec me, at least have the satisfaction of knowing that they are paying out the nose to do it.

Please make an attempt not to be so hostile without reading previous posts. Clearly im talking to a pilot of whom i have been having a conversation the last few pages.


You'd like that, wouldn't you? Wardec yourself and be done with it. Nop, won't happen.

You try and read our posts maybe? People offering real advice and help get ignored while you cherry pick small parts to make your flawed argument. You think we're slow or something?
It's a shame you thing so little of the EVE forum dwellers.

D.

Bear


My 'flawed' arguement was a game mechanic for a decade. Since then industrial corp numbers are down in high sec due to the vast number of war decs that any corp can obtain simply by being active.

In fact, i would welcome a ccp representative to comment about industrial corp numbers compared from this year to 2012 and before.
Danalee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#208 - 2015-04-21 19:05:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Danalee
alexclone1 wrote:
My 'flawed' arguement was a game mechanic for a decade.

Changed for the better. Indeed. Stop trying to get back to the olden days and live in the now.

alexclone1 wrote:
Since then industrial corp numbers are down in high sec

Proof much? It's like that saying, proof or STFU Shocked
alexclone1 wrote:
due to the vast number of war decs that any corp can obtain simply by being active.

Proof much? It's like that saying, proof or STFU Shocked
alexclone1 wrote:
In fact, i would welcome a ccp representative to comment about industrial corp numbers compared from this year to 2012 and before.

Oh, wait... once you get your proof, we'll talk.

Meanwhile, stop making an arse of yourself and HTFU.

I said it Cool

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment

alexclone1
Junkyard Gunners.
#209 - 2015-04-21 19:08:48 UTC  |  Edited by: alexclone1
Danalee wrote:
alexclone1 wrote:
My 'flawed' arguement was a game mechanic for a decade.

Changed for the better. Indeed. Stop trying to get back to the olden days and live in the now.

alexclone1 wrote:
Since then industrial corp numbers are down in high sec

Proof much? It's like that saying, proof or STFU Shocked
alexclone1 wrote:
due to the vast number of war decs that any corp can obtain simply by being active.

Proof much? It's like that saying, proof or STFU Shocked
alexclone1 wrote:
In fact, i would welcome a ccp representative to comment about industrial corp numbers compared from this year to 2012 and before.

Oh, wait... once you get your proof, we'll talk.

Meanwhile, stop making an arse of yourself and HTFU.

I said it Cool

D.

Bear


I do know that activity on the client is much lower now than pre war dec changes. I know of dozen of people i used to play with quit after the months of continuous war decs knowing that war decs were dirt cheap and would never stop. Everyone knows that the vast majority of eve online players were high sec industrials. Not sure what demographic is the most popular now...

Point being is that an entire way to play was removed so that griefers could war dec at will. Call me a carebear, but ive alarmclocked 4am for 2 months straight to shoot at russians in paragon soul. Ive spent much more time pvping than i have mining. And I felt that in regards to low/null sec - that is pretty fair. High sec is catered to the griefers since 2013, and the game is not better for it.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#210 - 2015-04-21 19:12:10 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Raising the cost achieves nothing but the opposite.

Noobs will be unable to afford wardecs.
Old megacorps as you put them have ISK to **** out anyway.

Malcanis' Law applies.
Sorry but that's simply no solution.

In fact we already saw this happen with the Inferno war changes. Increasing the cost of wars just means the people who want to fight wars as their primary form of gameplay have to organize into larger groups to lessen the financial burden on the individual members even if they would prefer to be independent. The side effect is the increased power of war dedicated entities.

Anything that makes wars more exclusive will make the existing problems worse.
alexclone1
Junkyard Gunners.
#211 - 2015-04-21 19:13:57 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Raising the cost achieves nothing but the opposite.

Noobs will be unable to afford wardecs.
Old megacorps as you put them have ISK to **** out anyway.

Malcanis' Law applies.
Sorry but that's simply no solution.

In fact we already saw this happen with the Inferno war changes. Increasing the cost of wars just means the people who want to fight wars as their primary form of gameplay have to organize into larger groups to lessen the financial burden on the individual members even if they would prefer to be independent. The side effect is the increased power of war dedicated entities.

Anything that makes wars more exclusive will make the existing problems worse.


Obviously the inferno war changes are the problem. War decs used to DOUBLE after every war dec. The first 2 were pretty cheap (50m, then 100m isk). This would allow the small guys to war dec, and at the same time ensure that too many corps couldnt pile in on an industrial corp at once.
Valkin Mordirc
#212 - 2015-04-21 19:14:56 UTC
Quote:

I do know that activity on the client is much lower now than pre war dec changes. I know of dozen of people i used to play with quit after the months of continuous war decs knowing that war decs were dirt cheap and would never stop. Everyone knows that the vast majority of eve online players were high sec industrials. Not sure what demographic is the most popular now...

Point being is that an entire way to play was removed so that griefers could war dec at will.



You always will be picked on, if you show no ability to defend yourself. Both in actual life and EVE-online. Sorry but if you, or anybody is somehow incapable of defending themselves they will get **** on.


They're are tons of Highsec corps that properly defend themselves from Mercenaries. Ultima Ratio is the first one to come to mind, that or AMC. (even though they are in Nullsec right now) And so on.


Also if the highsec indy corp count is so low, why is that wardeccers can find so many indy corps to dec?


#DeleteTheWeak
Danalee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#213 - 2015-04-21 19:15:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Danalee
alexclone1 wrote:
I do know that activity on the client is much lower now than pre war dec changes.

Is it? From what I gathered it's at an all time high especially since the THIS IS EVE video. You know, the one with all the pretty explosions.

alexclone1 wrote:
I know of dozen of people i used to play with quit after the months of continuous war decs knowing that war decs were dirt cheap and would never stop.

Man, you know people? Sure they didn't quit because of your non stop whinging?
Your anecdotes amuse me but facts they are not.

alexclone1 wrote:
Everyone knows that the vast majority of eve online players were high sec industrials. Not sure what demographic is the most popular now...

Starting with : Everybody knows and spouting random fantasy followed by not sure what it is now... Strong argument right there buddy.
Most popular demographic since THIS IS EVE = Nullbear.

alexclone1 wrote:
Point being is that an entire way to play was removed so that griefers could war dec at will.

Which way to play was removed? The one where you circumvented the rules by wardeccing yourself?
Wardecs aren't griefing in any way, shape or form by the way.
Your posts... yeah, a whole 'nother story.

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#214 - 2015-04-21 19:21:23 UTC
Here's what you do:

1. Create a corp.
2. Set the tax rate to 0.
3. Put all your industry alts in that corp. You know, the ones that do all the refining and building; the ones that don't undock.
4. Keep your miners in a NPC corp.
5. Miners mine, trade the ore to station alts for refining and such.
6. Create a chat room to talk in.
7. Use hauler alts to move goods.
8. Profit.

Plan B

1. Create several 1-2 man corps for missioners/miners.
2. Set the tax to 0.
3. Create a chat room to talk in.
4. Wardec comes around, missioners can drop to NPC corp. Rejoin once over, or just go ahead and create a new corp. It's called corp hopping.

Oh, and don't use corp/alliance ads to recruit. It just brings unwanted attention. Object here is to maintain a low profile, but if **** happens; have a plan to deal with it.

Avoiding a wardec is easy. Avoiding ganks is a bit more difficult, but the smart player can do it.
alexclone1
Junkyard Gunners.
#215 - 2015-04-21 19:22:32 UTC  |  Edited by: alexclone1
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Quote:

I do know that activity on the client is much lower now than pre war dec changes. I know of dozen of people i used to play with quit after the months of continuous war decs knowing that war decs were dirt cheap and would never stop. Everyone knows that the vast majority of eve online players were high sec industrials. Not sure what demographic is the most popular now...

Point being is that an entire way to play was removed so that griefers could war dec at will.



You always will be picked on, if you show no ability to defend yourself. Both in actual life and EVE-online. Sorry but if you, or anybody is somehow incapable of defending themselves they will get **** on.


You are the ceo of a corp. It grows to 50 pilots and you take them out to low sec on the weekends to kill pirates and you do well. You get war dec'd, and your corp does well. The next day another war dec... no big deal. The next another war dec, you decide that now you are outnumbered and so you will only take engagements that you can win/ do quick drive bys. The next day another alliance war decs you... word is getting around that you will actually fight! The next day another war dec, you are now camped in station.

Whats your next play?
alexclone1
Junkyard Gunners.
#216 - 2015-04-21 19:23:44 UTC  |  Edited by: alexclone1
Estella Osoka wrote:
Here's what you do:

1. Create a corp.
2. Set the tax rate to 0.
3. Put all your industry alts in that corp. You know, the ones that do all the refining and building; the ones that don't undock.
4. Keep your miners in a NPC corp.
5. Miners mine, trade the ore to station alts for refining and such.
6. Create a chat room to talk in.
7. Use hauler alts to move goods.
8. Profit.

Plan B

1. Create several 1-2 man corps for missioners/miners.
2. Set the tax to 0.
3. Create a chat room to talk in.
4. Wardec comes around, missioners can drop to NPC corp. Rejoin once over, or just go ahead and create a new corp. It's called corp hopping.

Oh, and don't use corp/alliance ads to recruit. It just brings unwanted attention. Object here is to maintain a low profile, but if **** happens; have a plan to deal with it.

Avoiding a wardec is easy. Avoiding ganks is a bit more difficult, but the smart player can do it.


100% correct. This is how high sec industrial corps operate.

Its up to CCP if they think this is acceptable.

edit: i decided to use your post in my original post.
Valkin Mordirc
#217 - 2015-04-21 19:29:02 UTC
alexclone1 wrote:
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Quote:

I do know that activity on the client is much lower now than pre war dec changes. I know of dozen of people i used to play with quit after the months of continuous war decs knowing that war decs were dirt cheap and would never stop. Everyone knows that the vast majority of eve online players were high sec industrials. Not sure what demographic is the most popular now...

Point being is that an entire way to play was removed so that griefers could war dec at will.



You always will be picked on, if you show no ability to defend yourself. Both in actual life and EVE-online. Sorry but if you, or anybody is somehow incapable of defending themselves they will get **** on.


You are the ceo of a corp. It grows to 50 pilots and you take them out to low sec on the weekends to kill pirates and you do well. You get war dec'd, and your corp does well. The next day another war dec... no big deal. The next another war dec, you decide that now you are outnumbered and so you will only take engagements that you can win/ do quick drive bys. The next day another alliance war decs you... word is getting around that you will actually fight! The next day another war dec, you are not camped in station.

Whats your next play?


Small fast hard hitting fleets meant to hit and run. Vexor Navy Issue with Logi support. My corp would be one of 100 that are decced. Unbelievably low profile I'm just another red in local not a gang with a very set plan.


Literally the easiest way to fight mercs.
#DeleteTheWeak
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#218 - 2015-04-21 19:30:23 UTC
alexclone1 wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
Here's what you do:

1. Create a corp.
2. Set the tax rate to 0.
3. Put all your industry alts in that corp. You know, the ones that do all the refining and building; the ones that don't undock.
4. Keep your miners in a NPC corp.
5. Miners mine, trade the ore to station alts for refining and such.
6. Create a chat room to talk in.
7. Use hauler alts to move goods.
8. Profit.

Plan B

1. Create several 1-2 man corps for missioners/miners.
2. Set the tax to 0.
3. Create a chat room to talk in.
4. Wardec comes around, missioners can drop to NPC corp. Rejoin once over, or just go ahead and create a new corp. It's called corp hopping.

Oh, and don't use corp/alliance ads to recruit. It just brings unwanted attention. Object here is to maintain a low profile, but if **** happens; have a plan to deal with it.

Avoiding a wardec is easy. Avoiding ganks is a bit more difficult, but the smart player can do it.


100% correct. This is how high sec industrial corps operate.

Its up to CCP if they think this is acceptable.

edit: i decided to use your post in my original post.


Well thats about as acceptable as one man corp spoiler war decs and scatter gun war decs, its called balance...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

alexclone1
Junkyard Gunners.
#219 - 2015-04-21 19:31:44 UTC  |  Edited by: alexclone1
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
alexclone1 wrote:
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Quote:

I do know that activity on the client is much lower now than pre war dec changes. I know of dozen of people i used to play with quit after the months of continuous war decs knowing that war decs were dirt cheap and would never stop. Everyone knows that the vast majority of eve online players were high sec industrials. Not sure what demographic is the most popular now...

Point being is that an entire way to play was removed so that griefers could war dec at will.



You always will be picked on, if you show no ability to defend yourself. Both in actual life and EVE-online. Sorry but if you, or anybody is somehow incapable of defending themselves they will get **** on.


You are the ceo of a corp. It grows to 50 pilots and you take them out to low sec on the weekends to kill pirates and you do well. You get war dec'd, and your corp does well. The next day another war dec... no big deal. The next another war dec, you decide that now you are outnumbered and so you will only take engagements that you can win/ do quick drive bys. The next day another alliance war decs you... word is getting around that you will actually fight! The next day another war dec, you are not camped in station.

Whats your next play?


Small fast hard hitting fleets meant to hit and run. Vexor Navy Issue with Logi support. My corp would be one of 100 that are decced. Unbelievably low profile I'm just another red in local not a gang with a very set plan.


Literally the easiest way to fight mercs.


You forgot that you are the ceo of an industrial corp. Most your memebers are around 10m sp with at half being in mining skills. Logis and Vexor Navy issues are not an option except from your more experienced players, which arent many.

How did you get your fleet out of the station?
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#220 - 2015-04-21 19:31:56 UTC
Let us speak in terms of historical facts...

Wars have already had their fees greatly increased in recent years, still the pansies complain.
Wars have already been nerfed to now allow unlimited defenders to come to a defenders aid, still the pansies complain.
Wars can be simply negated entirely by dropping corp and joining an NPC corporation, still the pansies complain.
Wars can be countered very easily and an aggressor made infinitely miserable just by defenders putting mind in gear, still the pansies complain

The 'answer' to the war issue is not further nerfs, but to just tell the pansies to **** off. That, and to close the existing dec-dodging loophole and have a war follow individuals who drop corp under wardec. AFTER that loophole is closed, then we can talk about tweaks to fees.

Oh, and the abomination of 'social corporations' that cannot be wardecced is antithesis to EvE's core principles, and both CSM and CCP should feel bad for even considering implementing such a notion.

EvE is (supposed to be) a cold dark place, and yes that includes hisec.

p.s.
@OP: WoW is that way ---->

F