Player Features and Ideas Discussion

You adapt by making less money than you did before. It's not hard.

Why is Highsec completely dependent upon Nullsec/Lowsec for some materials? When (if ever) will Highsec be more self sufficient? Null miners/industrialists already have a number of benefits already in place. It seems that the only people who will benefit are those who are already doing quite well in the game and control Null, hence their strong interest in this thread.

From a r/p aspect: Why would the empire not go into Null and claim the area for themselves? They would logically inhabit the areas or attempt to control areas which are rich in minerals. I'm ready to claim what is rightfully ours, let the war begin!

I would also ask CCP to investigate the possible insider trading of Zydrine and Megacyte prior to the announcement of these changes being made public. I believe that the there may have been large spikes in the purchases of both minerals before CCP Fozzie went onto Twitch with the initial announcement. Has this been looked into?

My opinion/feedback: This is a major change and is coming at the same time as SOV changes are taking place. Too much/too fast. I ask that the SOV changes go in first and the areas stabilize first. These changes should go in at a different time months from now and be phased into place. It's not broke right now so step it down a notch or two.

It was fozzie on the last o7 show where they broke the news. Unfortunately I was at school (watching the stream) so I didn't have the chance to cash in on it.

They even joked about the opportunity to "make money for watching the show"

e: of course after rereading the posts above I realize my redundant statement

There are few words to describe just how huge the stockpile of Morphite is.

Nobody would speculate on Morphite because there is probably five years of excess Morphite tucked away in peoples hangars that they have been holding onto in hopes that it would someday have a higher demand.

Unlike highends which can just be paired with more lowends, the demand for Morphite is tied to t2 manufacturing and the static supply of moongoo.

There's literally nothing to do with the stuff but make t2 items, and that demand is capped by the moongoo supply. As such, all excess Morphite production has just piled up in hangar corners for years since supply exceeds demand.

Still not an indicator for conspiracy, just savvy speculators.

And you arrived at the conclusion that what you do, unlike every other activity in the game, was a protected activity where CCP was not allowed to make changes that could negative impact your income....

Why again?

I'm honestly curious. Your chosen profession in game is the most reactive portion of the economy in terms of supply and demand, yet you believe that you should be exempt from changes in supply and demand if they would negatively effect you.

Before Nullsec started churning out supercaps by the hundreds, Tritanium hovered at 3.5 ish isk per unit, and Pyerite at 7.

As of a week or two ago, Trit was at almost 6, and Pyerite at 13. You might not like it, but the fact is that you have been living fat off of an unnatural level of demand for Trit for years. Unnatural in that sooner or later, CCP was going to do something to stop it, and mineral prices would sink back towards pre-demand levels.

So if your income drops by 1/3, it's not that CCP has a mad on for you, it's simply that the changes to nullsec canceled your food stamps, and you actually have to rely on more local market demand to drive demand.

I always thought this was a player driven economy. These changes are not driven by us but by CCP. He has every right to question them as do I. It is going to make the rich, richer. I see a problem with that. Miners can not suddenly fight over the resources so this is not adding to any game content.

You live in Nullsec. Tell us why these changes are necessary. What is not working in the game for you guys? Does this have to do with jump fatigue making it hard to move things down there? Why are nullsec corps not actively seeking miners given these recent changes to the game? I've visited the recruiting forums and miners for nullsec corps are never wanted it's only PvPers. Is there an adequate risk to miners in Null that would warrant these changes? I've read that the better corps protect their mining ops fairly well. Where is the added risk then that warrants these changes?


Edit:
I do believe in risk/reward. I went over to zkillboard and searched on some of the mining ships to see where the kills are located. It's roughly 50/50 with just over half of the kills happening due to gankers in Highsec. Given that it is so dangerous to be a miner I feel compelled to demand we have access to nullsec ores in highsec. Fair is fair.

Thanks, I am having a look over the rest of the thread as the initial post, your post and the announcement didn't answer my questions. For the entire game I believe the total amount of ISK lost for mining is equal between nullsec and highsec. I believe that currently the amount of money made per miner is far greater for those who do it in Nullsec. (You are already being rewarded).

Maybe you can clear it up. How much do your miners make per hour right now?

It is very hard to be profitable with industry in Highsec, I know this first hand. I heard/read that PI was also not worth doing in Highsec but does well in low/Null. Now mining is going south as well. I would like to know how many miners has your corp lost in the past month. Can you prove to me that mining in Null has added risks which warrant getting a larger reward?


Edit: Just finished reading and my questions were NOT answered adequately. I would like CCP to answer the questions as I believe many people in this thread have hundreds of billions at stake. They are skewing the discussion. The people for this are those who already live in Null. The people against are those who have no intention of moving to Null and are already being negatively impacted in other ways as I have previously pointed out. This only adds to it. Frankly these changes are not necessary and I'm totally opposed to them.

Ok, so unless the number of miners in each sector are roughly equal, a 50/50 split doesnt show a similar trend. If there are more miners in highsec, a 50/50 means more losses per person null. If more miners in null, then higher loss per person in highsec. The 50/50 ratio shows us nothing about frequency.


Before the recent market shenanigans, I would say 40-60mil/hr being the appropriate range, however those numbers are very dependent on which ores they chose and fits they used and gang links and other such factors.


I couldn't actually say how many miners we've lost. Circumstances beyond my control had a corp merger and a brief period of time away from the game (about a month or two). Even before that I can only say I was aware of about 5 other miners (pilots, not to include alts) personally, though i'm sure there were a few more. However there were a couple that mined ice primarily as I did for a period before glitter value tanked.

As for the extra risk? Essentially it comes down to the difference in mechanics.

• In null anyone can shoot you at any time, so anytime hostiles came around you had to either dock up and wait or get in a fleet to fight.
• The logistics to move the ore to highsec includes its own risks as well. Depending on the size of your shipment you could end up losing a lot, it didn't happen often (I praise our JF pilots on this), but I'm aware that some groups have honed skills on hunting hostile JF pilots. And this is necessary since there is only so much you can do with surplus high-ends if you keep it local, and then you have to decide whether to refine at home and keep the low ends or if it is more profitable to save the cargo space in compressed form
• Then there is the sov and index requirements. This can be considered to be split up amongst the alliance, but it definitely makes it very difficult if you try to run the operation with less people.
• Risk to assets if you lose your station, and the loss of isk on anything destroyed in the process of defense (ihubs, TCUs, ships, etc.).

Most of these risks are shared by the group, and also the methods used to reduce it are shared as well, but adding all of these divided costs still adds up to quite a bit more than what is needed in any other area of space.

Thanks for the answers Rowells. Your miners currently make about 4-5 more than me and do have more risk. Transportation is also a greater risk. I'm trying to understand why it is needed and I just don't see it. The system seems to be working.

Currently I can make about 10 Mill. an hour in a barge mining ore. You stated you make between 40-60 Mill. an hour. So you make 4-6 times more than I do. I also am acknowledging that transportation is riskier for you in Null. My income is now going to slip. I will be making less and your numbers will rise you will be making more. BTW, our haulers also are increasingly at risk of being ganked. It's not a zero-risk process.

Can you honestly tell me your miners/industry are currently so hobbled that these changes are necessary?