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[April] Ore, Mineral and Nullsec Mining Anomaly Revamp

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Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#141 - 2015-04-15 20:15:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Iroquoiss Pliskin
Querns wrote:
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
Querns wrote:
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:

Anyone know whether these ore anomalies are all the same across all sov space? If so, then moon resources are the only differentiating factor here. Sad

Yes, the ore anomalies are consistent across all sov space.


You got me. Blink But different flavours of the same PVE stuff doesn't count.

During the early times, all of the 6/7/8/10 DED complexes had fixed and known locations across half a dozen regions, and that fueled conflict.

Then, it was the R32/64 moon materials during the BoB times, and still appears to be largely the case nowadays. Smile

This is why you're in Delve right now. Smile

contemporary politics, as that does not describe our presence in Delve at all.


Yes, I have no desire to view it through any official reason given. Blink

http://i.imgur.com/1DGp55L.png

Well, I guess it's better than nothing - I just wish more resource types would be differentiated in a similar way.

Exact ore anomalies everywhere seems like cheese. Sad

// [PvP Damage Done by Class (Scylla)] //

[Cruisers Online]
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#142 - 2015-04-15 20:25:14 UTC
Loving the changes!


I'd like to see Mercoxit become a very dense ore, valuable in small volumes, but found in small amounts sporadically and spread out. This would make ore hunting in a Prospect useful, as it could store a good haul of Mercoxit, were the ore a lot smaller compared to the morphite yield.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#143 - 2015-04-15 20:34:35 UTC
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:

Yes, I have no desire to view it through any official reason given. Blink

http://i.imgur.com/1DGp55L.png

Well, I guess it's better than nothing - I just wish more resource types would be differentiated in a similar way.

Exact ore anomalies everywhere seems like cheese. Sad

I'm sure that exacerbated ignorance and myopia will serve you well in life.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#144 - 2015-04-15 20:47:52 UTC
Querns wrote:
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:

Yes, I have no desire to view it through any official reason given. Blink

http://i.imgur.com/1DGp55L.png

Well, I guess it's better than nothing - I just wish more resource types would be differentiated in a similar way.

Exact ore anomalies everywhere seems like cheese. Sad

will serve you well in life.


It certainly does. Smile

We'll see whether the resource disparity is enough for donuts to be served as the main course this Summer and throughout the year - especially in the South-East.

// [PvP Damage Done by Class (Scylla)] //

[Cruisers Online]
Valterra Craven
#145 - 2015-04-15 21:04:50 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:


you want to grief the mining belts/anon's now.. so instead of blowing up ships, structures, and infrastructure.. you now propose ccp to allow you to doomsday a mining belt.. rofl


Not me personally, no. I left the cesspool that is nullsec a long time ago. Also, your analogy is pretty disingenuous since doomsdays aren't aoe and can't even target everything universally like sub caps can. Though I do like the idea of stealth bombers being able to bomb anoms.

Besides, the lol factor, you haven't actually pointed out why this is a bad idea. Bombing strategic resources like mines etc in WWII made since, so why wouldn't it make since in this context?
FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#146 - 2015-04-15 21:28:39 UTC
Wait...

They are doubling the "high value" ore in everything and not dropping other mineral use?

YAY FOR MOAR EXPENSIVE EVERTYTHING!

Or have i grossly misread something?
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#147 - 2015-04-15 21:30:32 UTC
FireFrenzy wrote:
Wait...

They are doubling the "high value" ore in everything and not dropping other mineral use?

YAY FOR MOAR EXPENSIVE EVERTYTHING!

Or have i grossly misread something?

You're not far off the mark, but you're overestimating the impact a little. Doubling zyd/mega does not significantly increase the cost of a finished good, because so little of the minerals are used compared to trit/pyer/etc. I'm not a titan builder myself, but one I spoke to said that the change would only add 1-2b to a titan's cost (about 80b today). Scale down the impact to smaller goods appropriately.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#148 - 2015-04-15 21:36:43 UTC
Querns wrote:
FireFrenzy wrote:
Wait...

They are doubling the "high value" ore in everything and not dropping other mineral use?

YAY FOR MOAR EXPENSIVE EVERTYTHING!

Or have i grossly misread something?

You're not far off the mark, but you're overestimating the impact a little. Doubling zyd/mega does not significantly increase the cost of a finished good, because so little of the minerals are used compared to trit/pyer/etc. I'm not a titan builder myself, but one I spoke to said that the change would only add 1-2b to a titan's cost (about 80b today). Scale down the impact to smaller goods appropriately.


Eh, proportionately capitals use less highends than smaller ships and modules do, but even in the small stuff if it's more than a 5-8% increase I'd be surprised.
DINGDONG DING
Doomheim
#149 - 2015-04-15 21:55:19 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
1Robert McNamara1 wrote:
There goes my ore transportation business... Good.

Are the high sec ores going to retain their current mix?


I disagree with removing the varieties of ore (suggested above). If I remember correctly the higher value rocks are only in asteroid belts and their improved compression is a boon to transporters.

It may be a 'boon to transporters' right until the industrialists have to deal with 3 different compressed ore varieties per ore as a result. The saving in micromanagement from removing all 5% & 10% ores and changing it so that you actually just mine 5% & 10% more of the normal ore is worth a small increase in transportation issue, especially since compression can now be done at any POS, station or outpost, making it vastly easier to transport Ore in general.



compression can not be done at a station or outpost unless you know of a way explain...

"compression can now be done at any POS, station or outpost,"
DINGDONG DING
Doomheim
#150 - 2015-04-15 22:00:28 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Ok serious post.

Has anyone at CCP considered just what the changes to Megacyte production cost is going to do to HS Production? There is no "mining" source of Megacyte in HS, the markets in highsec only hold a supply 25% of current demand. After changes the market supply will be effectively 12.5%. The only source of HS Megacyte was gun minning which CCP nerfed by nearly 45% last year. It doesn't take a degree in math to show that a 200% increase to the requirements of Megacyte are impractical and unsustainable at current levels, let alone when you compound future changes to Sov, any Fatigue Rebalancing.

HS will need a source of Megacyte, as will Lowsec. If the goal is to make self sufficiency a thing, then it should be applied to all areas of space. Otherwise.

Its game over man, game over.

Don't get me wrong i like changes to sov, and i like these changes, but this is only going to nuke HS production.



how about refine mission loot. you guys in high sec do have unlimited missions you can farm and refine to get high ends easy.... ccp is not reducing mega or zydrin you get . but in a way doubling it
DINGDONG DING
Doomheim
#151 - 2015-04-15 22:01:24 UTC
FireFrenzy wrote:
Wait...

They are doubling the "high value" ore in everything and not dropping other mineral use?

YAY FOR MOAR EXPENSIVE EVERTYTHING!

Or have i grossly misread something?



rfining mods and ammo form loots will yield more mega and zydrine.. tooo...
GetSirrus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#152 - 2015-04-15 22:05:47 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
These changes are intended to make Nullsec more self sufficient then it is currently. We continue to believe that no area of space should be completely independent of any other, but there is a lot of room to make nullsec more self sufficient and improve the opportunities for zero-sec miners and industrialists.


And nothing here addresses just how much mining is the most maligned activity in the game. Mining is the entry point of industry.

The thing missing from your sov survey is why is the space valued by a player. Would you like to take a guess at how many respond "for the ores"?
Axe Coldon
#153 - 2015-04-15 22:18:10 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:

No, it does not. You mine ALL the ore in the anomaly so you can get another anomaly.

You know, I heard a rumour there are these things called static belts in Null, that have even more in them than highsec, and a mix of all the ores as well. And given there are even more null systems than high, and high has no industrial anoms.... this must mean that all the ore that null currently imports could easily just come from their static belts.

You just won't be satisfied till CCP gives you absolute perfect braindead mining in the anoms will you? It's already been just handed to you on a silver platter needing only slight balancing, now you want it on the gold platter with platinum inlay as well.


There is a problem mining the normal belts in null, the ores you mine out don't repop daily like they do in high sec. And I tested this just last week. In high if you mine out a kernite ore, tomorrow it will be back. In null it won't. Near as I figure they repop the ores in the normal belts 2x a week in null.

So for any serious daily mining, you are stuck with the index belts.

Main problem with mining is isk per hour. but as there is no shortage of ore atm, I guess miners are happy with what they make or they wouldn't be mining.

I would vote for scannable index belts. It was much safer to mine them. You only had to worry about the pro's that bookmarked it and came back later. but my favorite part about scannable belts, once you popped a belt, and new one shows up in 5 minutes..all bm's are invalid. New Location. And if someone came in system, you had more reaction time because they had to scan you down first. Those were the good ole days.

As for industry in null, having to not import ores will be good..but null will still remain a major exporter of ore even so. Its just not safe to travel in null like it is in high. There are no regional hubs in Null. And with the capital range nerf, only JF's can easily jump around to get stuff. Before your average pilot in a carrier could jump quite a distance to get hulls and materials if it was available..now that option is out for the most part.

I don't see the ore changes effecting null all that much. But for those that do mine and build in null, it will be easier. And maybe more building will occur.

I would like to see a new class of mining barges that can mount a defense equal to the value of the ship. but I am not sure what they does to the balance of the game.

No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Vertueux Arkaral
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#154 - 2015-04-15 22:47:20 UTC
Will Ore Prospecting Arrays affect wormholes?
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#155 - 2015-04-15 22:53:08 UTC
Vertueux Arkaral wrote:
Will Ore Prospecting Arrays affect wormholes?

This release? No. Cant get get proper sov in a wh. The ore mineral comps will change though.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#156 - 2015-04-15 22:54:01 UTC
Vertueux Arkaral wrote:
Will Ore Prospecting Arrays affect wormholes?

You can't use infrastructure hubs in wormhole space, so no. It is an accoutrement available only in conquerable nullsec.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#157 - 2015-04-15 22:55:21 UTC
FireFrenzy wrote:
Wait...

They are doubling the "high value" ore in everything and not dropping other mineral use?

YAY FOR MOAR EXPENSIVE EVERTYTHING!

Or have i grossly misread something?

zyd and meg make up miniscule amounts for most builds (excluding things like mining crystals, which are not being changed). So the effect on price will be hardly noticeable compared to an increase in any other mineral.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#158 - 2015-04-15 23:00:28 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
Querns wrote:
FireFrenzy wrote:
Wait...

They are doubling the "high value" ore in everything and not dropping other mineral use?

YAY FOR MOAR EXPENSIVE EVERTYTHING!

Or have i grossly misread something?

You're not far off the mark, but you're overestimating the impact a little. Doubling zyd/mega does not significantly increase the cost of a finished good, because so little of the minerals are used compared to trit/pyer/etc. I'm not a titan builder myself, but one I spoke to said that the change would only add 1-2b to a titan's cost (about 80b today). Scale down the impact to smaller goods appropriately.


Eh, proportionately capitals use less highends than smaller ships and modules do, but even in the small stuff if it's more than a 5-8% increase I'd be surprised.

I actually have a sheet for the build cost and portions of building a Hel from a few months back (so before and price influences).

Zydrine and Megacyte combined were 0.07% of minerals by volume and 3.16% of the build price. Prices for each zyd and meg were 464 and 850 respectively.

So the impact will definitely be felt for someone who mines high ends primarily, and very little impact on someone who builds with them.
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#159 - 2015-04-15 23:23:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Iroquoiss Pliskin
Yes, and depending how awesome™ the capship changes are this Summer, prices for minerals like Pye & Mex could fall, constituting no significant net increase in Tech 1 production cost. Smile

No one has died because of a little Mega & Zyd.

Unlike the 1.8 trillion monthly income from Dysprosium. Blink

// [PvP Damage Done by Class (Scylla)] //

[Cruisers Online]
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#160 - 2015-04-15 23:31:50 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
CCP you should compensate highsec ore so our real income doesn't drop. As, usual you put not the slightest thought to "balancing" highsec ore or you just straight up don't care that you are transferring our ISK to the nullsec cartels.

Btw, what you should do is make lowsec ore more valuable and leave nullore where it is now. Lowsec is where the real challenge is in mining and according to your mantra of risk vs reward lowsec ore should be carrlying the highest premium in the game.


You do realise there goes a whole lot of groupwork into turning a certain system into *mineable* beforehand?
In highsec, you chose system, travel there with an orca and start huffing rocks. In Lowsec, you can use one of those stations that are in about any system, no effort required.
In sov-null, you got a whole bunch of people conquering the region, building or sorting infrastructure, because of how complex sov-null can be possibly so much more stuff you don't even see on first glimpse, that having more than just the same you could mine in comfort space is all but wrong. The organization that usually goes into nullsec mining should not only be more profitable potentially, but generally. The same way the best refining yield should only be avaiable to those who invest, the same should be the case with rocks themselves.

Currently, afk-mining in total security in highsec can be achieved by choosing a procurer. No one is ever going to bother. In nullsec currently, one of those miners in a wingwarp position atleast has to be watching local, cause if no one notices the neut in local for 15-20 seconds, one of your guys is tackled and a sabre about to land (fyi that's a ship that aoe-scrams your mining fleet, and warpstabs don't work), and if fortune aligns for the ceptor pilot and he got you spotted on the second or third dscan, even that might be to late for atleast one/two of your barges.

The resulting meta-gaming about nullmining in way-back systems and giant bubblebunkers is a ***** solution, but as much as I hate it I see it's useful and legit gameplay. Even here the investments made into securing your mining OP are obviously on a different level than parking your orca on a friendly station.


Im not saying nullsec shouldnt make more on ore, as they already have the premium ore that issue has been addressed.

What I'm saying is that highsec mining is already a modest to low income activity and cannot afford to lose more ISK / hr to nullsec.

Btw, even if my mining ship were absolutely invulnerable to any and all attack and interference i would still be making modest to low ISK / hr. Striping more and more income from High to Null like they did with PI and now with Mining is an untenable direction to take the game.

Risk vs reward, Yes! Using this mantra to strip highsec miners of anything resembling fair ISK / hr, NO!

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.