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[April] Ore, Mineral and Nullsec Mining Anomaly Revamp

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Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#101 - 2015-04-15 12:35:44 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
CCP you should compensate highsec ore so our real income doesn't drop. As, usual you put not the slightest thought to "balancing" highsec ore or you just straight up don't care that you are transferring our ISK to the nullsec cartels.

Btw, what you should do is make lowsec ore more valuable and leave nullore where it is now. Lowsec is where the real challenge is in mining and according to your mantra of risk vs reward lowsec ore should be carrlying the highest premium in the game.


You do realise there goes a whole lot of groupwork into turning a certain system into *mineable* beforehand?
In highsec, you chose system, travel there with an orca and start huffing rocks. In Lowsec, you can use one of those stations that are in about any system, no effort required.
In sov-null, you got a whole bunch of people conquering the region, building or sorting infrastructure, because of how complex sov-null can be possibly so much more stuff you don't even see on first glimpse, that having more than just the same you could mine in comfort space is all but wrong. The organization that usually goes into nullsec mining should not only be more profitable potentially, but generally. The same way the best refining yield should only be avaiable to those who invest, the same should be the case with rocks themselves.

Currently, afk-mining in total security in highsec can be achieved by choosing a procurer. No one is ever going to bother. In nullsec currently, one of those miners in a wingwarp position atleast has to be watching local, cause if no one notices the neut in local for 15-20 seconds, one of your guys is tackled and a sabre about to land (fyi that's a ship that aoe-scrams your mining fleet, and warpstabs don't work), and if fortune aligns for the ceptor pilot and he got you spotted on the second or third dscan, even that might be to late for atleast one/two of your barges.

The resulting meta-gaming about nullmining in way-back systems and giant bubblebunkers is a queer solution, but as much as I hate it I see it's useful and legit gameplay. Even here the investments made into securing your mining OP are obviously on a different level than parking your orca on a friendly station.
Pokket Sez
Danneskjold Repossessions.
#102 - 2015-04-15 12:46:02 UTC
ArrowPlease remove the upgraded versions of each ore (+5% and +10%), we just don't need 100 versions of the some ore. Its 2015!
Tenchi Sal
White Knights of Equestria
#103 - 2015-04-15 12:47:08 UTC
Now that lets get those Rorquals and Orcas back out on the field. For to long people have been able to start their ships behind pos shields, make an easily joinable fleet, and buff the fleet while they are off at work or school. Every 2-3 ships being boosted is an extra mining vessel worth of ore being harvested. All that extra generated ore is coming in while the booster isn't even home. Its similar to botting. This works the same for hisec players who have an Orca in an npc corp sitting at a station buffing everyone while they are gone. With the revamp and the higher isk coming in for null players, its time to choose to risk vs reward.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#104 - 2015-04-15 12:53:00 UTC
Cixi wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
As expected, hisec mining is completely rekt. Thanks Mike, you've proven to be an armor fit laser drake of a CSM once again.

Now who has the biggest bot fleet wins eve mineral rush.


Minerals prices are already falling jita.

I guess if you pointedly ignore zydrine and megacyte, this might be true.

FYI: The point of these changes is to boost highends and make lowends drop.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#105 - 2015-04-15 13:06:49 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:

Miners tend to do so because they enjoy it/enjoy building stuff from their proceeds.


This assumption is dangerously weak. Profit is absolutely a major carrot for miners in all areas of space.

Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:

With this change going ahead it may be an idea to add some of the most rare rocks in small amounts into hard to scan anomalies in hisec and losec for explorers to go find. Then some of the isk transfer is mitigated, production issues in nullsec are mitigated and new sites are added for explorers to find and exploit putting more pilots in space whilst rewarding actual effort more.

These already exist; they are called wormholes.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#106 - 2015-04-15 13:12:20 UTC
Pokket Sez wrote:
ArrowPlease remove the upgraded versions of each ore (+5% and +10%), we just don't need 100 versions of the some ore. Its 2015!

My idea for this was to make it so +5%/+10% variants, when compressed, output the +0% variant, but with +5%/+10% more of the +0% compressed variant output as a result.

However, there's some merit to the argument that compressed +5%/+10% variants allow for greater mineral compression, so this idea has little merit of its own. Oh well.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Dentia Caecus
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#107 - 2015-04-15 13:17:59 UTC
I like the thrust of these changes; will you add just a touch more mex, please.
Elana Apgar
Allspark Industries
#108 - 2015-04-15 13:26:15 UTC
Drone Plague wrote:
Null mining will not be a thing until you make it possible. Currently an interceptor can be in system and in the belt/anoms in under 30 seconds. change them so that all belts/anoms need to be scanned down first.

Null mining will also not be viable until you fix the Rorqual. Currently, it is a useless capital as it not even any good for pos deployment anymore.


The interceptors are fine, anyone paying attention can get out of a belt before they get there.

HOWEVER

The special ore belts that we once had to scan down and are now anoms should go back to being scanned down. It adds a little cushion of safety for wormhole miners and null sec miners, and makes people work a little harder for their content/kills.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#109 - 2015-04-15 13:26:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Pokket Sez wrote:
ArrowPlease remove the upgraded versions of each ore (+5% and +10%), we just don't need 100 versions of the some ore. Its 2015!

Then don't mine the variations or only mine the variations. For all the other people who do mine them, especially in riskier areas of High sec, for instance, they are a a reasonable increase in reward for the slightly greater risk. Back in 2013, when I mined a bit as a solo, unboosted Mackinawer, I exclusively gathered the variations and made nice money from them while all the big Hulk-Orca hordes went for the bigger, richer normal roids. They usually concentrated on these rocks and I could mine alongside their fleets and we would not interfere with each other. That is a great benefit of the variations.
There are all in all 48 ore variations and not hundreds. If you mine in Null sec, you are left with only 7 ores (21 variations) to mine in order to satisfy your needs. With all the tools available to take over calculation and estimation of mineral requirements for the production, it's not too hard of a task to coordinate miners accordingly.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#110 - 2015-04-15 13:39:22 UTC
Have you considered adding more minerals to T2 production? Currently it seems a bit odd that most of them just use morphite as a mineral and rely on the t1 mineral count.

Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#111 - 2015-04-15 14:09:04 UTC
NEONOVUS wrote:
Have you considered adding more minerals to T2 production? Currently it seems a bit odd that most of them just use morphite as a mineral and rely on the t1 mineral count.


Most (if not all) T2 items have a T1 item as one of their ingredients, so the mineral cost is baked in already.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Eodp Ellecon
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#112 - 2015-04-15 14:09:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Eodp Ellecon
1. Please fix the skill tree for Mercoxit. As is, it is possible that you can refine it but not mine it, Or mine it poorly and not refine it. It is useful and sensible that an industrialist be able to refine without mining skills so that should remain down the line. Since access alone is an issue to certain rocks we could tiercide the skill requirements for T2 crystals of the higher value null ores (Reprocessing Efficiency V – angry debate here we come).


The old scan-for-anoms was tedious for new players, and diffused a skill path of interest, taking even longer to gain access into this entry portion of EVE. Yes, new players mine in null sometimes and the tease of scanned anoms over belts was silly. Do not bring this back unless you have a 99% reduction scan reduction utility slot on all mining ships.



Miners tend to fall in three groups:

A) The Solo-multiboxer who is his own booster and fleet and doesn’t open up fleet to others. They eat all the rocks indiscriminately.

B) More rarely the AFK booster Fleet. Whereby people come and go through the day. Useful, casual, social. Tend to mine out anoms in null and belts in HS but is very system-centric.

C) The Solo miner due to location or time zone. Doesn’t get boosts which makes mining painful. These are the only people that do what Fozzie thinks peeps do regarding mining specific rocks for specific minerals. Preposterous proposal would be a ‘T3 miner’ that could mindlink boost solo or small fleets. Since we seem to be Deployable specialize this coming year, might as well have a local booster, ala ESS, even tho I despise it.



The compressed variants - +5 +10 - are at least useful to Trade for arbitrage disparities as well as focused import needs. Somewhat tedious but should remain at this point.



Today Crokite is the Zydrine producer and for some reason Bistot will become so (WHY the flip?). With the proposed anom volumes just between Crokite to Bistot, all but 1 proposed future Bistot volume is below current Crokite, is an additional reduction to Zydrine supply beyond the proposed BPO demand increase.


Couple of years ago buffs to Spod went into place to offset the Trit values added for new ship mass making a meh rock better over time. Jaspet is the new purposeless rock.


TY,
Eo

Got as far as pg 3 at least.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#113 - 2015-04-15 14:13:02 UTC
Scale mining yield (m3/sec) to system sec, and suddenly you'll have miners in lowsec, nullsec, and yes, whs.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#114 - 2015-04-15 14:20:45 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Scale mining yield (m3/sec) to system sec, and suddenly you'll have miners in lowsec, nullsec, and yes, whs.

This already happens. Ore prospecting sites spawn +5% variants from -0.45 to -0.849999 security status, and +10% variant sites spawn from -0.85 to -1.00.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#115 - 2015-04-15 14:28:52 UTC
Querns wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Scale mining yield (m3/sec) to system sec, and suddenly you'll have miners in lowsec, nullsec, and yes, whs.

This already happens. Ore prospecting sites spawn +5% variants from -0.45 to -0.849999 security status, and +10% variant sites spawn from -0.85 to -1.00.


Those ratio should probably be greater than 5% and 10%. Then it might not sound so god damn awful to mine a veldspar rocks in null. You can keep a little bit of those more valuable rocks in HS if variation is important but they should have a much greater spawn rate in lower security space.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#116 - 2015-04-15 14:30:37 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Querns wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Scale mining yield (m3/sec) to system sec, and suddenly you'll have miners in lowsec, nullsec, and yes, whs.

This already happens. Ore prospecting sites spawn +5% variants from -0.45 to -0.849999 security status, and +10% variant sites spawn from -0.85 to -1.00.


Those ratio should probably be greater than 5% and 10%. Then it might not sound so god damn awful to mine a veldspar rocks in null. You can keep a little bit of those more valuable rocks in HS if variation is important but they should have a much greater spawn rate in lower security space.

Good thing they are removing veldspar rocks from ore prospecting sites (along with all other high/low ores.)

If you mine belts for any reason other than to cherry pick A/B/M or to bootstrap a new mining system, you're objectively Doing It Wrong.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#117 - 2015-04-15 14:42:11 UTC
Sturmwolke wrote:
Mineral market showed a massive abnormal volume spike for Zydrine and Megacyte starting Apr 1st in Jita/Amarr.
If this change is posted on the 14th and had not been leaked through any other means (i.e Twitter etc.) 2 weeks EARLIER, then you may want to check where that leak is with IA.


We started buying zyd/mega last year. OMG it must be LEAKS!

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#118 - 2015-04-15 14:45:31 UTC
Why Even Bother, the Goons Got There First
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#119 - 2015-04-15 15:05:23 UTC
Querns wrote:

This assumption is dangerously weak. Profit is absolutely a major carrot for miners in all areas of space.

They do it for reasons other than pure profit as there are many better and much faster ways to make money than mining. They could make more isk mining in null right now under the blue doughnut yet they don't. They don't want to be in nullsec and won't be forced down there so the net result of moving isk from hisec to null will be lost subscriptions. The hisec players pay to play the game too yet we see improved yields in one area of space with the rare ores remaining unavailable in others. This won't encourage many more people to go mine in null as they simply don't want to be there otherwise they already would.

Querns wrote:

These already exist; they are called wormholes.

[/quote]
Which are fine for those with the time and real life commitments that allow them to do so, but many players in hisec stay there because they love the game but wouldn't have the time to commit to going into WH's. This would be a means of providing a limited supply of high-ends in a competitive setting.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#120 - 2015-04-15 15:28:06 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Querns wrote:

This assumption is dangerously weak. Profit is absolutely a major carrot for miners in all areas of space.

They do it for reasons other than pure profit as there are many better and much faster ways to make money than mining. They could make more isk mining in null right now under the blue doughnut yet they don't. They don't want to be in nullsec and won't be forced down there so the net result of moving isk from hisec to null will be lost subscriptions. The hisec players pay to play the game too yet we see improved yields in one area of space with the rare ores remaining unavailable in others. This won't encourage many more people to go mine in null as they simply don't want to be there otherwise they already would.

Laughing at the blue donut thing when we completely destroyed the N3 coalition, caused NpCdock to abandon sov altogether, and announced our intentions to not only withdraw from their holdings, but also to cede 2 of our own regions in the process. Could you be any further behind in politics?

The point of nullsec being more lucrative is that it is commensurate with increased risk. If you want to stay in your highsec playpen, you must necessarily accept lower reward in the bargain. It's just how the game works.

Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Querns wrote:

These already exist; they are called wormholes.


Which are fine for those with the time and real life commitments that allow them to do so, but many players in hisec stay there because they love the game but wouldn't have the time to commit to going into WH's. This would be a means of providing a limited supply of high-ends in a competitive setting.

Daytripping does not require the kind of commitment you are describing.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.