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Aegon the Dragonbane
War Were Declared
#1 - 2015-04-03 06:34:41 UTC
For new players sifting through the market it would be nice to have a visual cue as to what items have a higher meta level. (i.e. grey for meta one, blue for meta 2, etc etc.) If not at least have some type of naming scheme that makes sense (which it seems some items do).

I'm sure for older players it doesn't mater since your market consists of only t2 or faction/officer mods.
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#2 - 2015-04-03 06:39:35 UTC
Uhm its called not being lazy and looking at the info tab of the item in question and reading the attributes.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#3 - 2015-04-03 06:48:48 UTC
Aegon the Dragonbane wrote:
I'm sure for older players it doesn't mater since your market consists of only t2 or faction/officer mods.

It certainly does not consist of only "T2 and Faction/Officer mods". Roll Faction mods are used when appropriate to save some fitting requirements and make very tight fittings work or to enhance a certain aspect of a ship. T2 come with hefty fitting requirements that require some concessions in terms of fittings to make them work and in other cases require the use meta modules. Rarely anyone in their right mind uses officer modules for actual combat as their price tag vastly overshadows their actual usefulness and makes you an instant target for all kinds of PVP that these modules cannot cope with. In fact, many fittings require the use of meta modules in combination with T2 and some green Faction glitter icing. To mind come the meta propulsion modules, meta scrams, points, damps, jams, webs, at the moment even Limited Invulnerability Fields, weapons occasionally.

You can already compare and sort the modules of your choice by using the Compare tool. Although, I won't deny that having modules sorted by Meta level in the info window's Variations tab instead of alphabetical order, would make more sense.

UI Improvement Collective

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FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#4 - 2015-04-03 07:03:23 UTC
that and i believe this is called tiericide...

As in "they're working on it give them some time"
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2015-04-03 07:07:00 UTC
Strict meta levels are in the process of being phased out anyway.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#6 - 2015-04-03 07:24:21 UTC
Max Deveron wrote:
Uhm its called not being lazy and looking at the info tab of the item in question and reading the attributes.



that and you need to look beond meta levels anyway since its not all ways meta 5 is better than 4

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Tiddle Jr
MOONFIRE SERVICE PROVIDER
#7 - 2015-04-04 01:18:59 UTC
Aegon the Dragonbane wrote:
For new players sifting through the market it would be nice to have a visual cue as to what items have a higher meta level. (i.e. grey for meta one, blue for meta 2, etc etc.) If not at least have some type of naming scheme that makes sense (which it seems some items do).

I'm sure for older players it doesn't mater since your market consists of only t2 or faction/officer mods.


Additional color coding won't help much cause you still need to check the stats of the module.

And as Rivr said sometimes it's still require a mixture of meta t2 and faction. But again the current meta is broken.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#8 - 2015-04-04 07:01:21 UTC
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Aegon the Dragonbane wrote:
For new players sifting through the market it would be nice to have a visual cue as to what items have a higher meta level. (i.e. grey for meta one, blue for meta 2, etc etc.) If not at least have some type of naming scheme that makes sense (which it seems some items do).

I'm sure for older players it doesn't mater since your market consists of only t2 or faction/officer mods.


Additional color coding won't help much cause you still need to check the stats of the module.

And as Rivr said sometimes it's still require a mixture of meta t2 and faction. But again the current meta is broken.


Then maybe a number in the top left in the font size of what would be occupied by an appropiate faction, deadspace or purple icon instead?

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Cade Windstalker
#9 - 2015-04-04 07:16:23 UTC
With the tiericide working its way through the various modules this is becoming a moot point, since higher meta level is no longer strictly better. And the newly re-balanced modules are getting names that indicate what their attribute changes over the T1 are.
Lienzo
Amanuensis
#10 - 2015-04-04 07:19:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Lienzo
Dev presentation this year and last talked a good line about revamping meta along the lines of specialization, but so far it hasn't really lived up to that.

For example, ample light missile launchers don't really give an advantage over their compact counterpart, except in that you get a few extra rounds between reloads. They don't even get less heat damage. The compact launchers have less fitting and do more damage, so they're pretty much the same old same old of attempting to balance by cost and rarity.

Expanding fitting diversity just isn't a priority.
Tiddle Jr
MOONFIRE SERVICE PROVIDER
#11 - 2015-04-04 09:00:34 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Aegon the Dragonbane wrote:
For new players sifting through the market it would be nice to have a visual cue as to what items have a higher meta level. (i.e. grey for meta one, blue for meta 2, etc etc.) If not at least have some type of naming scheme that makes sense (which it seems some items do).

I'm sure for older players it doesn't mater since your market consists of only t2 or faction/officer mods.


Additional color coding won't help much cause you still need to check the stats of the module.

And as Rivr said sometimes it's still require a mixture of meta t2 and faction. But again the current meta is broken.


Then maybe a number in the top left in the font size of what would be occupied by an appropiate faction, deadspace or purple icon instead?


CCP is replacing meta 1-4 by tiers. So in the end you would have T2 and 1 meta plus 1 basic module. Very easy to remember.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Cade Windstalker
#12 - 2015-04-04 09:02:28 UTC
Tiddle Jr wrote:
CCP is replacing meta 1-4 by tiers. So in the end you would have T2 and 1 meta plus 1 basic module. Very easy to remember.


It's not one meta module, it's a selection of meta modules with different attributes, as opposed to the progressive tiering of the current meta level setup.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#13 - 2015-04-06 03:32:52 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Tiddle Jr wrote:
CCP is replacing meta 1-4 by tiers. So in the end you would have T2 and 1 meta plus 1 basic module. Very easy to remember.


It's not one meta module, it's a selection of meta modules with different attributes, as opposed to the progressive tiering of the current meta level setup.

Though color coding the different flavors of meta module in space (as is done currently, but in a slightly more visible way) would probably be much better and possibly tagging distinct lines if the flavor names aren't carried throgh (compact for easier fitting, etc.)

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Tiddle Jr
MOONFIRE SERVICE PROVIDER
#14 - 2015-04-06 03:41:30 UTC
The problem to recognize a certain module and what faction it's related to is only about first three month of active gameplay. All after that you do know what is what almost by default.

If you remove current green blue and purple tags would it be a problem for you?

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Cade Windstalker
#15 - 2015-04-06 05:07:31 UTC
James Baboli wrote:
Though color coding the different flavors of meta module in space (as is done currently, but in a slightly more visible way) would probably be much better and possibly tagging distinct lines if the flavor names aren't carried throgh (compact for easier fitting, etc.)


I'd must rather leave color coding for things with fewer fine distinctions. Also color coding causes accessibility problems for color blind people and Eve has enough of those already. The descriptive names (Compact, ect) should be applied to all of the new meta modules as part of the Tiericide and IMO is a perfectly serviceable system.
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#16 - 2015-04-06 08:51:21 UTC  |  Edited by: McChicken Combo HalfMayo
Place the meta number at the beginning in superscript.

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James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#17 - 2015-04-06 08:55:36 UTC
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:
Place the meta number at the beginning in superscript.

²Limited Ion Blaster
³Anode Ion Particle Cannon

These meta level variations in a tiered fashion are supposed to be going away soon™, and this is a large change for a QOL improvement.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#18 - 2015-04-06 13:48:11 UTC
Max Deveron wrote:
Uhm its called not being lazy and looking at the info tab of the item in question and reading the attributes.


Going down a different path from the rest.

Is there a game breaking reason not use a color tag to mark these things?

T2, Faction, Dead Space and Officer modules already benefit from distinctive color tags to separate them so why not the rest of the tiers or levels.

And taking your comment about not being lazy to the end CCP should remove the color tags from the Faction, Dead Space and Officer modules simply for consistency. That and it would force those who use them to be less lazy and actually read the show info boxes.
Cade Windstalker
#19 - 2015-04-06 22:26:54 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Max Deveron wrote:
Uhm its called not being lazy and looking at the info tab of the item in question and reading the attributes.


Going down a different path from the rest.

Is there a game breaking reason not use a color tag to mark these things?

T2, Faction, Dead Space and Officer modules already benefit from distinctive color tags to separate them so why not the rest of the tiers or levels.

And taking your comment about not being lazy to the end CCP should remove the color tags from the Faction, Dead Space and Officer modules simply for consistency. That and it would force those who use them to be less lazy and actually read the show info boxes.


This doesn't make sense. The current color tags *are* consistent, they denote groups of modules, separating T1, T2, T3, Faction, Deadspace, Storyline, and Officer modules. This is clear and consistent for new and old players alike.

Also clear marking of modules is not "lazy" it's good UI. Making players click more to get information that is currently readily available is not an improvement.

There's no point in marking the current meta levels because they're going away. It might be worth it, once the module Tiericide is done, to add a marking for T1 "Meta" modules (or whatever new name we come up with, since Meta doesn't make much sense in the new system), but that's in the future. In the meantime adding this to the current game would be pointless work that won't affect a healthy chunk of modules and will be phased out almost as soon as it's completed.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#20 - 2015-04-07 03:42:39 UTC
Aegon the Dragonbane wrote:
I'm sure for older players it doesn't mater since your market consists of only t2 or faction/officer mods.



Actually many of us like the meta/named gear mods. Its how we bend fitting rules to shoehorn in as much as we can on a ship.

Only thing that really needs to be t2 is the weapons, rest can be meta'd in many cases. Quite readily and effectively in fact. Look at pvp fits on various sites like bc, failheap, reddit. Might notice meta prop mods and tackle is gear loved a lot. At least till metacide ruins it (not a big fan of the concept, will not derail thread over it though lol).

Our secret is right click show info in eft, pyfa and such on items and pick based on stats. Stats that make us happy in the confines of the grid we have left after the few must have t2 slapped on and stuff like grid penalty bearing rigs. Meta number can mean jack really. I look at stats tbh...I can't tell you the meta level of most things I run.


Also you need to remember the older players were once noobs. Working out the eve gear structure kind of part of the eve experience. Bitter vets worked through this themselves long ago. Noobs will get there at some point too. And be better for it if they work at it. You come at someone with vanilla insert_ship_name....that someone if around the block a few times may know how to shut down vanilla real fast. with unique theory crafting...you spice up that vanilla for a surprise hopefully,
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