Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I still think that logistics repair and cap transfer has become true cancer.

Used to be times, when tanks were local - Much more dynamic fights developed with often unpredictable outcomes.

logistics are to strong on smaller ships. if we encounter a subcap gang with carrier support we won't engage. its just pointless. nerving logistics would really make pvp much more interesting and dangerous. which would be good for all :)

stuff

This thread has some fantastic ideas regarding roles for capital ships once the new structures and sov changes are in TQ; however, I am deeply concerned for the rorqual. Current issues aside, unless changes are made on a going forward basis, I am not certain it will be a viable platform. Specifically, without a pos bubble in which to operate, the rorq is a sitting duck. Yes, it can boost while it is not deployed, but there is no point boosting with an un-deployed rorqual; the orca is a wiser choice for a host of reasons.

As each of you know, the rorqual must be deployed to apply its best boosts or crush, a role that is admittedly almost useless following the introduction of compression arrays. Since a deployed rorqual is unable to escape an attack while outside a pos bubble until the vessel exists deployed mode, it both will and should be target number one in any given system. Potentially, it could sit deployed near a large, gunned structure, but a fleet consisting of smaller high dps ships, say destroyers or bombers, could probably escape serious loss while taking down a capital ship. I have no problem with risk vs reward; however, the current rorqual mechanic applied to bubble-less "posses" seems to reveal a severe imbalance. Frankly, a deployed rorqual in the new sov/structure system is impracticable at best and realistically is not sensible vessel to use under most circumstances. It is unlikely to be utilized much, if at all, except in the deepest, most defensible parts of null sec, if those exist post sov changes, and certainly not by small and medium sized alliances.

I do not have a "fix;" however, I have collected several ideas. I am not espousing a particular idea, but instead hope to both include the rorqual in this well developed thread and generate more ideas for changes to this vessel from the community.

In no particular order, following are some ideas I have collected. They should not be perceived as stacking, some, none,one, or a combination of these ideas could be applied. Frankly, none of them seem to be the answer and I fervently hope further ideas are generated:

- Allow the rorqual to apply its best boosts outside of transformer mode
- If no pos bubble is permanent, give the rorqual a native +2 warp strength
- Remove both the industrial core and the industrial reconfiguration skill and refund the associated skill points since the compression array essentially obviates this function, thus freeing a high slot
- Allow the rorqual to fit a triage module but apply the bonuses to local tank only; when in triage mode, the rorqual cannot provide mining boosts
- Shorten the jump range by 1/2 while significantly buffing local tanking abilities to prevent the so called battle rorq from creeping into other capital roles

As previously stated, none of these seem to be a perfect solution, but I sincerely hope this is a good starting point for further conversation.

Screw it, might as well spitball out some ideas while everyone else is doing it.

To me, these ships need to have defined, non-overlapping roles in order to ensure they each are viable and provide for interesting gameplay. They also need to ensure that they don't become massively overpowered in N+1 situations.

So, here's my ideas regarding roles:

1. CARRIERS - These have evolved to become mainline capital combat ships, and I think they need to retain that role to a large degree. I similarly feel that their ability to support the logi role while out of triage is too powerful. So, I suggest crafting the Carrier to be a mainline, flexible DPS ship while retaining logistics capability while in Triage.

- The ability of Carriers to use non-fighter combat drones should be significantly reduced. Split the drone bay to something like a dedicated Fighter bay and a much, much smaller Drone bay. Something along the lines of enough Fighter storage to carry a full flight plus some replacements - call it a full base flight of 5-10 fighters and a full replacement flight of 5. Drone bay capacity should be somewhere on the order of 500-1000m3 or so.
- Give Carriers a role bonus to Fighter damage / tank like the Guristas ships, minimizing server lag and the need to carry a bazillion fighters around. Remove the Drone Control Unit, balancing fighter damage to approximately 1000 or so DPS.
- Nerf the hell out of Capital Remote Reps, making them about 2x as powerful as Large Remote Reps of the same size. Base repair amount should be around 100-150 HP/sec. Remove role bonuses to rep amount and rep range.
- Rebalance the Triage module to ensure that Carriers are able to push out as much rep power as currently on TQ. This would mean shifting the role bonuses to the Triage module, and increasing the rep bonus.
- Give Carriers turret and launcher hardpoints. Create Capital sized guns designed to allow Carriers to push out BS-level DPS in the 800-1000 range with guns, using Large ammo. Basically Captial Autocannon / Pulse / Blaster batteries with BS grade tracking and range. Only allow short range gun variants, to prevent long range high alpha sniper duels.
- Entosis link penalty is only 2x instead of the 5x of other capital ships.

This ought to give you a tough mainline DPS ship, with flexible DPS able to apply against subcaps and capitals. Total DPS from a mainline fit should be somewhere in the 2000-2500 range, assuming a tank. At the same time, the ability to spidertank to hell is greatly reduced, and your ability to project damage is highly dependent on Fighters, which can be killed. Turret damage is relatively short range (I'm thinking that on average projecting gun damage past about 50km should be difficult without specifically fitting for it), and can be impacted by TDs etc as usual. They can still fill both the logistics and damage roles, but in order to gain the most out of their reps they both have to sacrifice potential DPS and to leave them vulnerable to incoming DPS. Having a smaller Entosis link penalty makes these a natural choice for major Fozziesov battles, and mounting a Triage module with a solid local tank should allow them to be viable in a lot of situations.

2. DREADNOUGHTS – If Carriers are the mainline, flexible capital combat ship, Dreads are specialized beasts designed for one thing and one thing only: murdering other capitals. They should be tough, with beastly local reps, and MASSIVE outgoing damage.
- Buff the hell out of the Siege Module. Like massively increase the outgoing DPS, on the order of 100% or so. I’d love to see Dreads in the 20k DPS range in a tanky fit. At the same time, massively decrease their damage application while in Siege. They should have an INCREDIBLY hard time applying damage to anything smaller than a Carrier, and should ideally need support to apply full DPS to moving Carriers.
- Buff the Siege Module to give significantly increased resistances while in Siege Mode, along the lines of the Bastion Module. The aim should be for a T2 fitted Dread to have a local tank somewhere in the 35-40k range (while cap boosters etc last).
This should produce a pretty hard counter to Carrier fleets, at least as long as they’re on field. Their DPS out of Siege will be pretty anemic, and hard to apply to subcaps. At the same time, their DPS *in* Siege will be FEARSOME. With the lowered out of Triage rep power of Carriers, having Dreads on field should cause some interesting choices to be made. At the same time, Dreads will be very vulnerable to subcap fleets, and neuts / Focused Void Bombs in particular. This ought to give you a tough mainline DPS ship, with flexible DPS able to apply against subcaps and capitals. Total DPS from a mainline fit should be somewhere in the 2000-2500 range, assuming a tank. At the same time, the ability to spidertank to hell is greatly reduced, and your ability to project damage is highly dependent on Fighters, which can be killed. Turret damage is relatively short range (I'm thinking that on average projecting gun damage past about 50km should be difficult without specifically fitting for it), and can be impacted by TDs etc as usual.

***CONTINUED***

In one fell swoop you have killed triage. First by taking the attention from logistics to DPS and second by giving the dread far too much damage for a triage carrier to tank. even now subcap fleets and a dread can kill a carrier before it ends cycle if utilised correctly.

Dreads do not need more firepower as they have plenty right now (the rev needs some love but thats what happens when the others get buffed but its left alone), more tank maybe. RR's need to have their base stats reduced and the triage bonus increased.