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[New structures] Market Hubs and Drilling Platforms

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Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#121 - 2015-03-28 11:23:08 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Kazaheid Zaknafein wrote:
It would be cool to have the Drilling Platform generate a variable sized astroid belt containing rocks that have ore based on what its anchored to.

The belt would increase in size based on the platform size
Moon goo and raw PI mats could generate as part of the belts, in very small quantities
Perhaps allow the fitting of mining lasers into the high-slots allowing the structure to be manned and used to mine its own belt: 8 strip miners sounds op, but it is limited to its own belt as to what it can mine.
The belts should be tied to system location and the systems natural ore distribution; no Jaspet in a .9 Minmatar system, and the belt should only regenerate after downtime.

Potential rigs could be fitted that maybe increase the quality of the ore, size of the belt, or size of the individual rocks.


Drilling platforms producing asteroid belts isn't such a bad idea except it would need careful consideration wrt very secure areas of null. Deep inside one of the big allinace homes would allow a huge amount of mining in almost complete safety and if people are using caps/supercaps less now then less will be being destroyed. It could easily lead to a glut in minerals if they aren't being consumed somewhere.


Not a good idea. It would be far better for the drilling platform module to be separate from any POS or outpost infrastructure and be a separate module. You would have to keep an eye out for the large rock deposits spawning either in standard asteroid belts and/or in the mining anomalies. Then the drilling platform would have to be transported to the large rock deposit and anchored to it. We could maybe have an additional skillset to anchor and use these new drilling platforms proficiently . I'm starting to get excited now. These drilling platforms would be like POCO & mobile depot and would be attackable only under wardec conditions with a reinforcement timer. Obviously they could only be anchored by members of player run corporations.

We definitely don't want another passive/AFK revenue stream added to the economy and especially not to the 'blue donut'.

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#122 - 2015-03-28 11:32:07 UTC
Kazaheid Zaknafein wrote:
It would be cool to have the Drilling Platform generate a variable sized astroid belt containing rocks that have ore based on what its anchored to.

The belt would increase in size based on the platform size
Moon goo and raw PI mats could generate as part of the belts, in very small quantities
Perhaps allow the fitting of mining lasers into the high-slots allowing the structure to be manned and used to mine its own belt: 8 strip miners sounds op, but it is limited to its own belt as to what it can mine.
The belts should be tied to system location and the systems natural ore distribution; no Jaspet in a .9 Minmatar system, and the belt should only regenerate after downtime.

Potential rigs could be fitted that maybe increase the quality of the ore, size of the belt, or size of the individual rocks.


Wouldn't be a good idea for a mining platform to be able to mine small/ordinary rocks in a standard asteroid belt or anomaly. The drilling platform should be anchored to the specific new large deposit and only be able to mine that deposit. I would suggest it would have to be actively controlled/piloted by a capsuleer as well like a mining vessel. Otherwise it wouldn't function. I don't think we really want a 'mini-game' added to the process like exploration is currently but it does have to be active. Preferably a new usage skillset would be required as well.

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#123 - 2015-03-28 11:41:07 UTC
Masao Kurata wrote:
If you do (and I don't think you should, logistics guys need appreciation) introduce npc hauling, it needs to be less safe than player hauling in ALL space. This means in highsec, interbus haulers need to be freely attackable to a degree that nobody would use them for high to high transport. I don't want to suicide gank NPCs. Nobody wants to suicide gank NPCs. Suicide ganking is honestly a very rare thing already, although the noise made about it is quite loud. Honestly though this idea just seems bad.

The problem you say you're trying to address is fitting ships in null. Honestly this seems like a problem players should be fixing. If people are having trouble with this that there's a market but nobody's supplying it, you need to look at why (probably mostly docking rights).


Regarding the NPC convoys idea I doubt attacking them and taking the cargo would be set as a concordable offence. More likely is that you would receive 'suspect' status so anyone else could then attack you freely. More conflict drivers.......

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#124 - 2015-03-28 11:46:10 UTC
Zappity wrote:
I posted this in one of the other threads but realised it was in the wrong place.

dev blog wrote:
Finally, we are considering adding Interbus Shipping abilities, which could reduce logistic hassle for small volume of items to fit a ship, but at a specific cost: a NPC convoy would spawn and manually move to the destination, being highly susceptible to disruption from other player groups.

I strongly object to this. What is the game design objective here? There are already active courier groups in the game so why would you try and take this away from players and give it to NPCs? Logistics should be difficult and player-solved. It adds a lot of realism and depth. NPC roles reduce both realism and depth.


I think, or I got the impression, it is going to be really small scale in that you might 'order' one or a small number of modules as they weren't available at your current location maybe. I don't think CCP want to take jobs away from haulage companies or small haulers. I think more than anything it is adding another conflict driver & more risk. EVE is essentially about ships being blown up and this pours a little more petrol on the fire.

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#125 - 2015-03-28 11:51:52 UTC
Planetary Interaction is a good system and is not really truly passive as it takes quite a bit of time to set up and complete the processes - for me anyway Oops . But the number of nullsec people asking for drilling platforms to become another actual 'passive' income stream for large nullsec entities is extremely worrying. Lets hope the CSM, which GSF has a larger hold on this year, does not push for what nullsec communities/leadership desire on the issue of drilling platforms.

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#126 - 2015-03-28 13:59:23 UTC
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Kazaheid Zaknafein wrote:
It would be cool to have the Drilling Platform generate a variable sized astroid belt containing rocks that have ore based on what its anchored to.

The belt would increase in size based on the platform size
Moon goo and raw PI mats could generate as part of the belts, in very small quantities
Perhaps allow the fitting of mining lasers into the high-slots allowing the structure to be manned and used to mine its own belt: 8 strip miners sounds op, but it is limited to its own belt as to what it can mine.
The belts should be tied to system location and the systems natural ore distribution; no Jaspet in a .9 Minmatar system, and the belt should only regenerate after downtime.

Potential rigs could be fitted that maybe increase the quality of the ore, size of the belt, or size of the individual rocks.


Drilling platforms producing asteroid belts isn't such a bad idea except it would need careful consideration wrt very secure areas of null. Deep inside one of the big allinace homes would allow a huge amount of mining in almost complete safety and if people are using caps/supercaps less now then less will be being destroyed. It could easily lead to a glut in minerals if they aren't being consumed somewhere.


Not a good idea. It would be far better for the drilling platform module to be separate from any POS or outpost infrastructure and be a separate module. You would have to keep an eye out for the large rock deposits spawning either in standard asteroid belts and/or in the mining anomalies. Then the drilling platform would have to be transported to the large rock deposit and anchored to it. We could maybe have an additional skillset to anchor and use these new drilling platforms proficiently . I'm starting to get excited now. These drilling platforms would be like POCO & mobile depot and would be attackable only under wardec conditions with a reinforcement timer. Obviously they could only be anchored by members of player run corporations.

We definitely don't want another passive/AFK revenue stream added to the economy and especially not to the 'blue donut'.


That's my key concern, anything that becomes another easy passive income is bad in my opinion. A platfomr that gives decent bonuses to mining and has a compression aray built in would be fine especially if it leaves all the high slots free for defenses. A platform that just sits there and eats up belts with no effort at all would be awful.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#127 - 2015-03-28 14:02:10 UTC
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:
Planetary Interaction is a good system and is not really truly passive as it takes quite a bit of time to set up and complete the processes - for me anyway Oops . But the number of nullsec people asking for drilling platforms to become another actual 'passive' income stream for large nullsec entities is extremely worrying. Lets hope the CSM, which GSF has a larger hold on this year, does not push for what nullsec communities/leadership desire on the issue of drilling platforms.


Agreed that PI should stay as is, just replace the current RSI inducing system with a structure following the new system. Turning wither mining or PI into 'Place structure, reap isk' would only benefit those in the most secure null areas and only harm the newer players with much smaller setups in hi and losec, the very players it is supposed to help to generate isk to progress in game.
Hafwolf
Git R Done Resources
#128 - 2015-03-28 17:31:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Hafwolf
In the dev blog ccp says trade/office hubs "will also take over the role of Customs Offices"

So does this mean for every custom office that players own they have to have a office hub around every planet.

To me this phrase says that all poco's will have to be changed to the new trade/office hub structure.

Basically all systems will have multiple trade/office hubs in place of the current poco system.


I think office trade hubs should have an option to be used as POCO's but I don't think blobs of depot platforms (the name of the medium sized office/trade structure ccp uses in blog) in any sec status just for POCO's is not a good idea.

Also if they are changed over does that mean that I place my structure next to a planet and decide to move it I can unanchor it and move it or does these new structure not unanchor.
Oxide Ammar
#129 - 2015-03-29 06:05:01 UTC
I have some questions about the market hub:

- What happens when I put a public market hub then people start to list their goods there, what stops me from unanchor it and steal all market goods to myself ?

- what happens to the goods if that market got destroyed? will be any automated alert e-mail sent to everyone participated in this market if the market is under attack ?

- Are these market hubs have any defense systems or capable to return fire to whoever attacking it ?

- If I set a market hub to public use does it appears to everyone in overview like planet or station with name I chose for ? does it only appear on overview to whoever authorized to use (alliance, Corp or myself) ?

- We will be able to equip market hubs with turrets and drones like the new POSes ?

- Is it possible to modify the cargo space of the market ( L size) by cargo expanders like what you introduced at the start of your presentation ?

Lady Areola Fappington:  Solo PVP isn't dead!  You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2015-03-29 17:30:30 UTC
Somatic Neuron wrote:
Would the drilling platform, or some other sort of platform structure, be able to replace Planetary Interaction, please? Currently there is no way to get rid of people that are squatting on planets that you want for your own use Pirate

We should be able to hire DUST Marines to solve this.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#131 - 2015-03-29 20:22:05 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Somatic Neuron wrote:
Would the drilling platform, or some other sort of platform structure, be able to replace Planetary Interaction, please? Currently there is no way to get rid of people that are squatting on planets that you want for your own use Pirate

We should be able to hire DUST Marines to solve this.


And then the big alliances can just effectively buy the best null and losec planets by throwing enough marines at them. Maybe that's fine for null but I'd still say no. If you don't want someone on the planet you can catch them making pick-ups or use enough people to put extractors down around their base and make it worhtless to them.

These are civilian structures so at least in hisec and losec they would have CONCORD or faction protection. Making the planets in losec useless to anyone but the most powerful would discourage those who are currently willing to run into losec. Less pilots in space is only ever a bad thing
Destiny Dain2
Your Destiny Corporation
#132 - 2015-03-29 22:37:12 UTC
I really loved the idea about changing the security level of a system with concord assistance and will come heavily in play with setting up a trade system populated with public trading outposts.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#133 - 2015-03-30 02:16:49 UTC
Destiny Dain2 wrote:
I really loved the idea about changing the security level of a system with concord assistance and will come heavily in play with setting up a trade system populated with public trading outposts.

Yeah more concord, that's the ticket.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#134 - 2015-03-30 17:11:21 UTC
Oxide Ammar wrote:
I have some questions about the market hub:

- What happens when I put a public market hub then people start to list their goods there, what stops me from unanchor it and steal all market goods to myself ?

- what happens to the goods if that market got destroyed? will be any automated alert e-mail sent to everyone participated in this market if the market is under attack ?

- Are these market hubs have any defense systems or capable to return fire to whoever attacking it ?

- If I set a market hub to public use does it appears to everyone in overview like planet or station with name I chose for ? does it only appear on overview to whoever authorized to use (alliance, Corp or myself) ?

- We will be able to equip market hubs with turrets and drones like the new POSes ?

- Is it possible to modify the cargo space of the market ( L size) by cargo expanders like what you introduced at the start of your presentation ?


The first two points are the critical ones.

Anything that can be unanchored is a huge risk. As such I think only personal or corp market depots should be unanchorable.

For public use structures, these really should be very difficult to steal or destroy. Otherwise they will be mercilessly hazed and abused.


http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Neo Slave
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#135 - 2015-03-30 23:00:09 UTC
If you allow these structures to be disrupted but a frigate costing 1 million ISK there seems to be a huge imbalance in risk/reward there. The HP amount in POSes, POCOs, etc. requires an aggressor to commit a certain amount RISK (which can be explained as a relationship between isk value of ship and time spent reinforcing).

I can drop dreads and clear a tower in 5 mins, or send a fleet of ishtars to grind for an hour.

If entosis modules on a frigate are used to "reinforce" these structures and disrupt reaction, manufacturing, or mining that could cost an industrialist to lose significantly more than the value of the ship griefing him the system will force industry away from null sec, unless the benefits to using null are significant.

Hence the griefer/aggressor should need to commit an amount of "RISK" in order to reinforce an item using an enotsis module. This will give some balance in terms of what a bored atron pilot can do with 6 free hours.

Of course balancing the equation with the right ratios of time and isk is the key to making a system like this work.

A countermeasure can be that the processes of that structure continue to operate while reinforced so industry is not impacted as much.

Otherwise null industry will not flourish, and reactions for T2 items will not be as inefficient and drive prices up.
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#136 - 2015-03-31 03:36:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Maldiro Selkurk
As far as rigs go you will need different rigs for null, low, and high sec. The cost should reflect the benefit. If you simply make the rigs adapt to where the structure is then my highsec Corp pays 20b because the rigs on board are worth that to a 5000 man nullsec cartel. To highsec corporations the same rig might only be worth it at a max cost of 5b or less.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#137 - 2015-03-31 12:12:33 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
As far as rigs go you will need different rigs for null, low, and high sec. The cost should reflect the benefit. If you simply make the rigs adapt to where the structure is then my highsec Corp pays 20b because the rigs on board are worth that to a 5000 man nullsec cartel. To highsec corporations the same rig might only be worth it at a max cost of 5b or less.


5 Billion sounds an awful lot for a POS rig in high sec especially if you unanchor the POS and the rig/s are destroyed. Would probably have to be in the tens of millions at most ie similar to ship rig prices.

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .
Fandoragon Lunarsy
Doomheim
#138 - 2015-03-31 16:33:57 UTC
Just My two cents on the mining rig and new uses for Rourqal.
Make the new mining (platform or rig) be a module similar to the industrial core now, where the Rourq will deploy the mining rig. allow the ship to then make use of strip miners in the high slots, and maybe only one booster module.

How ever for me to feel comfortable parking a 3bil isk ship in a belt, on a moon, or in a Ice anom, we would need to see some changes to defense. I would like to see it able to deploy more drone's, It is in fact a capital ship, no need for fighter drones but just boost the Drone bandwidth, enough for say 10 sentry's, 7 or 8 heavy's.

Possible changes to the resistance's while having the mining array deployed so that you can survive a good size gank fleet until help arrives, but when is is not deployed or active you have less drone bandwidth and less resistance, so as to make it less likely that the ship could or would be used in pvp situations.

It would still make use of the ship and the skills that pilots already have, all that would need to be changed is the module's and the way they operate.

This also ties in with keeping a pilot involved in the mining or ore collection process, and making the ship into something of a piloted structure. A smaller version of this could be adapted for the orca and High Sec operations.

You could also tie in the mooring idea and have barge's, exhumers, and mining frigates be able to moor with the rig to receive the mining boost that they get now from mining boost module's that are already in game.
Webster Carr
Carr Consolidated Corporation
#139 - 2015-03-31 18:06:30 UTC
After watching the Structures presentation on you-tube I have to say I was really impressed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hen92QFrDUo&list=PLQvKSs1k6DLOiGGb44McruXcndTtzUUlu&index=36

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/back-into-the-structure/


I especially liked the idea for streamlining the deployment, operation, and configuring of structures. You fit the structure like a ship and deploy into space. A structure has service slots, these determine what type of services the structure can offer, assembly array, reprocessing, etc. (With certain structures getting bonuses to certain services.) Fuel is consumed by use of it's services not by just existing. Nice, intuitive, and understandable game play.


Quote:

D. Drilling platforms

Focused on resource harvesting as a whole.

Service module possibilities: Reprocessing, moon harvesting, reactions, mining, gas harvesting. We also are considering new harvesting gameplay mechanics. We could for instance have pollution gas clouds form around drilling structures that see high activity, or seed small planetoids in specific asteroid belts and scanable sites which require a drilling platform to break it down in smaller harvestable rocks.
Rigs possibilities: Anything that improves reprocessing, moon harvesting, reaction, tractor beam range effectiveness.



This part of the Dev Blog Sparked an idea: Why not allow the Rorqual some Service slots and bonuses similar to a Drilling platform, essentially turning it into a mobile Drilling Platform. (It would be immobile when deployed but possibly use the same 'reinforcement' mechanics as structures giving a reason to park a several billion isk ship in an asteroid belt.)

This idea of containing structure slots could be extended to other capital ships as well. (Anyone ever read the Star Wars novels with the smuggler Booster Terrik who captured an imperial star destroyer and turned it into a mobile smuggler's marketplace?)

Just an Idea,
Web
Lurifax
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#140 - 2015-04-01 09:20:45 UTC
The idea about having the platform having a drill that can be activated to spawn rocks that then have to be mined sounds nice.

Would be a way to get rid of the passive moon poo income.